Difference between revisions of "Talk:Table of Contents"

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Didn't see this before. All trustedUsers now have the right to edit the sidebar. I'm not sure what bureaucrats are for now. Originally I think they're just meant to assign users to groups. I added in some permissions so I could redact IP addresses, but now because only logged in users can edit it's impossible (I think) for them to show anymore.  I don't think we will have so many users that it will be much of a job. My plan is just to add recognized users to the trustedUsers group, which will have whatever powers are useful. Ideally bureaucrat will be an obsolete job once I figure out the permissions.--[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 06:12, 24 July 2017 (CEST)
 
Didn't see this before. All trustedUsers now have the right to edit the sidebar. I'm not sure what bureaucrats are for now. Originally I think they're just meant to assign users to groups. I added in some permissions so I could redact IP addresses, but now because only logged in users can edit it's impossible (I think) for them to show anymore.  I don't think we will have so many users that it will be much of a job. My plan is just to add recognized users to the trustedUsers group, which will have whatever powers are useful. Ideally bureaucrat will be an obsolete job once I figure out the permissions.--[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 06:12, 24 July 2017 (CEST)
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= Full list of pages =
 +
 +
*[[Antinatalism]]
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*[[Arguments for veganism]]
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*[[Bad Arguments for veganism]]
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*[[Carbon Offset]]
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*[[Clean Meat]]
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*[[Companion Animal Care]]
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*[[Consensus]]
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*[[Definition of Vegan]]
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*[[Developing the Alternate version in FOL]]
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*[[DrSinger: Summary]]
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*[[Editing Guidelines]]
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*[[Freeganism]]
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*[[Getting to the most charitable version]]
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*[[Getting to the steel-manned version]]
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*[[Introduction to Vegan YouTube]]
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*[[Isaac Brown]]
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*[[Less Able Humans]]
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*[[Logical connectives]]
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*[[Main Page]]
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*[[Marginal Cases]]
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*[[NTT counterpart sections]]
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*[[NTT to be revised]]
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*[[NameTheTrait]]
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*[[NameTheTrait 2.0]]
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*[[NameTheTrait Correction]]
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*[[Nutrients of Concern]]
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*[[Objective-subjective distinction]]
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*[[Old steel-manning and interpreting]]
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*[[Old summary of issues]]
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*[[Pet Ownership]]
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*[[Philosophical Vegan Patreon]]
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*[[Philosophical Vegan Twitter]]
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*[[Philosophical Vegan YouTube Channel]]
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*[[Proving Formal Arguments]]
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*[[Racism in Veganism]]
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*[[Seven Deadly Sins of Bad Vegan Activism]]
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*[[Starting a YouTube Channel]]
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*[[Sustainable Vegan Agriculture]]
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*[[Table of Contents]]
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*[[The Philosophical Vegan Forum]]
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*[[Value Narcissism etc]]
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*[[Vegan Video Resource Library Pamphlet]]
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*[[Vegan YouTubers]]
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*[[Zero Waste]]
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== Categorised ==
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*'''[[Nutrition & Health]]'''
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**[[Nutrients of Concern]]
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*'''[[Lifestyle]]'''
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**[[Companion Animal Care]]
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**[[Zero Waste]]
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**[[Freeganism]]
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**[[Carbon Offset]]
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*'''[[Activism/ Advocacy]]'''
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**[[Clean Meat]]
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**[[Environmentalist Approach]]
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***[[Sustainable Vegan Agriculture]]
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**[[Arguments for veganism]]
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***[[Consensus]]
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***[[Marginal Cases]] 
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***[[Less Able Humans‎‎]] 
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**[[Bad Arguments for veganism]]
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***[[Seven Deadly Sins of Bad Vegan Activism]]
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***[[NameTheTrait]]
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**[[Toolkits]]
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***[[Social Media]]
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****[[Starting a YouTube Channel]]
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*****[[Vegan YouTubers]]
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*'''[[Ethics]]'''
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**[[Definition of Vegan]]
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**[[Objective-subjective distinction]]
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**[[Proving Formal Arguments‎]]
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**[[Bigotry]]
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***[[Racism in Veganism]]
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**[[Antinatalism]]
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*'''[[Other Platforms]]'''
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**[[The_Philosophical_Vegan_Forum | Forum]]
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**[[Philosophical_Vegan_YouTube_Channel | YouTube‎‎]]
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**[[Philosophical_Vegan_Twitter | Twitter]]
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**[[Philosophical_Vegan_Patreon | Patreon]]
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 +
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=== Not part of the table of contents ===
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'''NTT'''
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*[[Developing the Alternate version in FOL]]
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*[[DrSinger: Summary]]
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*[[Getting to the steel-manned version]]
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*[[Isaac Brown]]
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*[[Logical connectives]]
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*[[NTT counterpart sections]]
 +
*[[NTT to be revised]]
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*[[NameTheTrait 2.0]]
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*[[NameTheTrait Correction]]
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*[[Old steel-manning and interpreting]]
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*[[Old summary of issues]]
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*[[Sustainable Vegan Agriculture]]
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*[[Value Narcissism etc]]
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'''Redirects'''
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*[[Pet Ownership]]
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*[[Getting to the most charitable version]]
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'''Wiki'''
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*[[Main_Page]] 
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*[[Philosophical_Vegan_Wiki:About| About]]
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*[[Table of Contents]]
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*[[Editing Guidelines‎‎]] 
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'''Potential video library page'''
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*[[Introduction to Vegan YouTube]]
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*[[Vegan Video Resource Library Pamphlet]]
  
  
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Unsorted threads in ‘All the arguments against,’‘Advocacy,’ and ‘Ethics’ are unduly long and could use sub-categorizing better, whilst others could use merging, so can throw out ideas for a rough table of contents now but I imagine it will emerge as well with what pages we most enjoy writing. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 05:23, 15 July 2017 (CEST)
 
Unsorted threads in ‘All the arguments against,’‘Advocacy,’ and ‘Ethics’ are unduly long and could use sub-categorizing better, whilst others could use merging, so can throw out ideas for a rough table of contents now but I imagine it will emerge as well with what pages we most enjoy writing. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 05:23, 15 July 2017 (CEST)
  
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Whay, successfully transferred all the hyperlinks for the categorized list of every thread on the forum to the table of contents talk page, so we can all edit it now on one page.
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:Whay, successfully transferred all the hyperlinks for the categorized list of every thread on the forum to the table of contents talk page, so we can all edit it now on one page.
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 +
:And the main table of contents page is red linked now so people can simply click on a broken hyperlink and start writing the page, as I said above feel free to create your own, merge or split categories further.
  
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And the main table of contents page is red linked now so people can simply click on a broken hyperlink and start writing the page, as I said above feel free to create your own, merge or split categories further.
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:If you ever want to copy any format you're working on into libreoffice word, you can save it as a mediawiki file, then it's only a bit of rejigging with find and replace tool in officeword to clean up further. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 23:50, 19 July 2017 (CEST)
  
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If you ever want to copy any format you're working on into libreoffice word, you can save it as a mediawiki file, then it's only a bit of rejigging with find and replace tool in officeword to clean up further. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 23:50, 19 July 2017 (CEST)
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== Diet/Nutrition ==
  
 
Really great work on Diet/Nutrition, maybe just one thing, you changed Drugs in Lifestyle to Recreational and Medicine, the forum threads categorized under drugs were talking about recreational so that makes sense and one on self medicating for mental health, so I think all medicine will likely be covered in the disease prevention and optimal nutrition sections. The threads that I originally categorised into medicine was a subcategory of principles, mostly hardcore vegans coming onto the forum asking about the trace animal products in medicine they had no alternative too. Will take it out for now, but if you had something in mind change it back no problem. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 10:56, 26 July 2017 (CEST)
 
Really great work on Diet/Nutrition, maybe just one thing, you changed Drugs in Lifestyle to Recreational and Medicine, the forum threads categorized under drugs were talking about recreational so that makes sense and one on self medicating for mental health, so I think all medicine will likely be covered in the disease prevention and optimal nutrition sections. The threads that I originally categorised into medicine was a subcategory of principles, mostly hardcore vegans coming onto the forum asking about the trace animal products in medicine they had no alternative too. Will take it out for now, but if you had something in mind change it back no problem. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 10:56, 26 July 2017 (CEST)
  
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I was thinking dietary measures in disease prevention/treatment; that is, specifically vegan relevant.  Medical interventions are something we don't need to cover really, since that's mainstream and I'm sure others do that much better than we do, we just need to discuss the ethical aspects regarding animal testing or ingredients in medicines.  Where did supplements go?  That might fit with something like a beneficial substances, before dangerous ones. --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 23:17, 26 July 2017 (CEST)
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:I was thinking dietary measures in disease prevention/treatment; that is, specifically vegan relevant.  Medical interventions are something we don't need to cover really, since that's mainstream and I'm sure others do that much better than we do, we just need to discuss the ethical aspects regarding animal testing or ingredients in medicines.  Where did supplements go?  That might fit with something like a beneficial substances, before dangerous ones. --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 23:17, 26 July 2017 (CEST)
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::No worries, OK moved it from under 'Principles' in the 'Ethics' section to under 'Nutrition and Health,' just felt odd before under 'Lifestyle' when it's often not something people have any option over, but with the ethics section turning into moral schools of thought, specific ethical situations like medicine can be covered under Health. Agreed good place to talk about animal testing, animal ingredients and anti-vaxers etc. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]])
  
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No worries, OK moved it from under 'Principles' in the 'Ethics' section to under 'Nutrition and Health,' just felt odd before under 'Lifestyle' when it's often not something people have any option over, but with the ethics section turning into moral schools of thought, specific ethical situations like medicine can be covered under Health. Agreed good place to talk about animal testing, animal ingredients and anti-vaxers etc.
 
  
 
== Lifestyle ==
 
== Lifestyle ==
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2 questions people come to the forum to ask a lot, categorized in 'General' and 'Principles' under 'Ethics' at the moment. Maybe can move to lifestyle or will merge with other sections as project goes along.
 
2 questions people come to the forum to ask a lot, categorized in 'General' and 'Principles' under 'Ethics' at the moment. Maybe can move to lifestyle or will merge with other sections as project goes along.
  
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**[[Is it Vegan?]] (Moral grey areas)
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*[[Is it Vegan?]] (Moral grey areas)
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**[[Staying Vegan]] (people and situations that make it difficult to stick to principles)--[[NonZeroSum]]
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*[[Staying Vegan]] (people and situations that make it difficult to stick to principles)--[[NonZeroSum]]
  
 
:Aha, yes, that's a good idea.  I just didn't get the Principles heading.  Although they are related, having them separate articles is good because there's a lot to say on those topics. I think lifestyle is a good place. --[[BrimstoneSaladWiki]]
 
:Aha, yes, that's a good idea.  I just didn't get the Principles heading.  Although they are related, having them separate articles is good because there's a lot to say on those topics. I think lifestyle is a good place. --[[BrimstoneSaladWiki]]
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== Ethics ==
 
== Ethics ==
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*[[Relativism]]
 
*[[Relativism]]
 
*[[Nihilism]]
 
*[[Nihilism]]
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=== Existentialism ===
 
=== Existentialism ===
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:So even though a lot of the ideas will be able to be merged with virtue activism on specific pages, to understand whole movements and groups it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist.
 
:So even though a lot of the ideas will be able to be merged with virtue activism on specific pages, to understand whole movements and groups it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist.
  
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:The standford articles are great, I spend many days reading their site, most important on this:
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:The standford articles are great, I spend many days reading their site, put all the most important quotes together here [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3358 Ethical Nihilism]
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::On the existential view, to understand what a human being is it is not enough to know all the truths that natural science—including the science of psychology—could tell us. The dualist who holds that human beings are composed of independent substances—“mind” and “body”—is no better off in this regard than is the physicalist, who holds that human existence can be adequately explained in terms of the fundamental physical constituents of the universe. Existentialism does not deny the validity of the basic categories of physics, biology, psychology, and the other sciences (categories such as matter, causality, force, function, organism, development, motivation, and so on). It claims only that human beings cannot be fully understood in terms of them. Nor can such an understanding be gained by supplementing our scientific picture with a moral one. Categories of moral theory such as intention, blame, responsibility, character, duty, virtue, and the like do capture important aspects of the human condition, but neither moral thinking (governed by the norms of the good and the right) nor scientific thinking (governed by the norm of truth) suffices.
 
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::“Existentialism”, therefore, may be defined as the philosophical theory which holds that a further set of categories, governed by the norm of authenticity, is necessary to grasp human existence. To approach existentialism in this categorial way may seem to conceal what is often taken to be its “heart” (Kaufmann 1968: 12), namely, its character as a gesture of protest against academic philosophy, its anti-system sensibility, its flight from the “iron cage” of reason. But while it is true that the major existential philosophers wrote with a passion and urgency rather uncommon in our own time, and while the idea that philosophy cannot be practiced in the disinterested manner of an objective science is indeed central to existentialism, it is equally true that all the themes popularly associated with existentialism—dread, boredom, alienation, the absurd, freedom, commitment, nothingness, and so on—find their philosophical significance in the context of the search for a new categorial framework, together with its governing norm.
 
−
 
 
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::[https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existentialism/#Aut 2.3 Authenticity]
 
  
 
:Also a good conversation [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3279 comparing and contrasting virtue ethics and existentialism]
 
:Also a good conversation [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3279 comparing and contrasting virtue ethics and existentialism]
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:--[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 07:52, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
 
:--[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 07:52, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
−
 
  
 
::"because if they didn't spend any time on the virtues everyone might become an unfeeling ghost" That's consequentialist reasoning. --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
 
::"because if they didn't spend any time on the virtues everyone might become an unfeeling ghost" That's consequentialist reasoning. --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
  
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:::Aye it was an argument for existentialist virtues via consequence, but do you understand how because we're always swimming through relativist societies and peoples subjective value theories that what is most important to the nihilist would be having their ethical choices felt and understood.  
+
:::Aye it was an argument for existentialist virtues via consequence, but do you understand how because we're always swimming through relativist societies and peoples subjective value theories that what is most important to the nihilist would be having their ethical choices felt and understood. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]])
  
 
::"it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist." I agree with that.  This is more of a question, then, of "why be good?" rather than what good is (which is answered by the normative theories). This is a good reference to start the page, and then maybe pull in existentialist arguments? https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=1932 --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
 
::"it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist." I agree with that.  This is more of a question, then, of "why be good?" rather than what good is (which is answered by the normative theories). This is a good reference to start the page, and then maybe pull in existentialist arguments? https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=1932 --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
  
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:::Sounds like a plan: [[Why go Vegan?]]
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:::Sounds like a plan: [[Why go Vegan?]] --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]])
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=== Virtue ethics ===
 
=== Virtue ethics ===
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:::That's helfpufl thanks, but yea the answer to why in virtue ethics is it develops character not ends, it's concerned with means, merging the acts-ends distinction.
 
:::That's helfpufl thanks, but yea the answer to why in virtue ethics is it develops character not ends, it's concerned with means, merging the acts-ends distinction.
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=== Evolutionary ethics ===  
 
=== Evolutionary ethics ===  
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::I moved Evolutionary Ethics and the others up under Consequentialism. I saw you changed Universalist to realist, I think you had it right the first time. Universalism is a better general descriptor, since realism may be more contentious: [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2710&start=40#p28879 Concerning the Correspondence of an Ethical System to the Definition of Morality] --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 01:01, 2 August 2017 (CEST)
 
::I moved Evolutionary Ethics and the others up under Consequentialism. I saw you changed Universalist to realist, I think you had it right the first time. Universalism is a better general descriptor, since realism may be more contentious: [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2710&start=40#p28879 Concerning the Correspondence of an Ethical System to the Definition of Morality] --[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 01:01, 2 August 2017 (CEST)
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:::Interesting reading! I read the same paragraph inator did on stanford about semantics and thought universalists had to stick to their guns and call themselves realists, like nihilists being speculative realists. But inator preferencing anti-realism was swayed by it to call themselves universalist.
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=== Stjn's Theories ===
 
=== Stjn's Theories ===
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:Fair enough, went back and looked at the moral hand theory too and that was also Stjn's paper, so nothing that would require a whole page on. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 07:36, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
 
:Fair enough, went back and looked at the moral hand theory too and that was also Stjn's paper, so nothing that would require a whole page on. --[[User:NonZeroSum|NonZeroSum]] ([[User talk:NonZeroSum|talk]]) 07:36, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
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== Ethical issues ==
 
== Ethical issues ==
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Maybe we can have an article on purity in general vs. pragmatism in Ethics.--[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 00:04, 3 August 2017 (CEST)
 
Maybe we can have an article on purity in general vs. pragmatism in Ethics.--[[User:BrimstoneSaladWiki|BrimstoneSaladWiki]] ([[User talk:BrimstoneSaladWiki|talk]]) 00:04, 3 August 2017 (CEST)
  
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::Aye, sounds good.
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:Aye, sounds good.
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= List of threads to draw from =
 
= List of threads to draw from =
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=736 Can I still consider myself a vegan if meds contain lactase?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=736 Can I still consider myself a vegan if meds contain lactase?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139 My bovine aortic valve]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=139 My bovine aortic valve]
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=== General ===
 
=== General ===
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=382 Anyone Here a Raw Vegan?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=382 Anyone Here a Raw Vegan?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=65 Debunking Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories”]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=65 Debunking Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories”]
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== Lifestyle ==  
 
== Lifestyle ==  
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==== Is it Vegan? ====
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3215 Ethical Milk: Is it possible and what would it cost? (UV video)]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3210 What about Love???]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3045 Food for the Body and for the Soul?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3039 Survival of the fittest and Social Justice?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3052 Life Loving – What is that you say ???]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3046 Veganism as a complimentary lifestyle !]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3011 South Lakes Safari Zoo – Discussions on zookeeping.]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2859 eating insect pollinated crops]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2913 Cereals fortified with Vitamin D from Sheep Wool]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2749 Eating vegan at fast food restaurants?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2850 Crash Course Philosophy: Non-Human Animals]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2696 Palm oil]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2562 Do bees make a surplus of honey?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2428 Is Eating Organic Vegan?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2332 Is it vegan to eat at McDonalds?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2174 do shrimps suffer?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2123 Killing Boars?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=801 OYSTERS & VEGANS]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1967 On Sugar: cane, coconut or agave?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1910 Are There Problems With Almond Milk?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1913 Vegan and pro Animals in Medical Experiments]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1908 Animals and medicine]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1835 Just found out about palm oil.]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1880 Insects]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1690 As a semi-vegan?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1897 Are you surprised/disappointed by the slow spread of veganism?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1113 What about insects?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1519 Remove eggchickens]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1524 Are Antidepressants Vegan?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1507 Pro choise and vegan?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1491 cowspiracy-> problem:cow farts solution: cow-holocaust ?]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1487 Product like palm oil]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1583 Is Eating HONEY Ok?!?!]
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1536 Are “Cage-Free” eggs really more humane?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1359 May contain …]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1352 Organic Foods?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1423 Is it moral to eat insects?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1406 How do you square being vegan with being pro-choice?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1517 Cheese]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1244 Should one be vegan even in lucid dreams?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1103 CRUELTY FREE SCHOOL SUPPLIES?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1215 Honey?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1097 Reprogramming predators]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1166 Free Range Chickens and Dairy Cows]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1148 Service Animals]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=967 Honey for Vegan]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=875 Ocean Life Extermination]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37 Experiments on Animals]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=928 Animal Products For Clothes As Well As Honey/Waste]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=545 What do you think of Bullfighting?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=719 Are eggs okay?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=567 Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=595 Conflicted regarding family-owned farms]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=412 Eggs, kind of….]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=403 Going easy on leather]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=384 Are Windows Cruel?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=379 Help again]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=344 Are Almonds Vegan? (please read, serious question)]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=333 fish, pain?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=332 sentient]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=243 Veal vs. Meat]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=265 Redesigned Zoo?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=119 Do you buy/consume Coca Cola products?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=232 Fishing]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=206 CockFight (The Horror!)]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=152 Buying vegan stuff from companies that also produce meat]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61 Animal killing for Game of Thrones]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55 Less sentient, less rights?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1326 Book recommendations]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=80 Book recommendations]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16 Invasive Species]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=404 Invasive species, what can even we do?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3077 Moral illusions and wild animal suffering]
 +
 +
 +
=== Staying Vegan ===
 +
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3227 What do I do with leather items?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2431 Should I throw away my feather pillows?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2630 Thoughts on Non-Vegan Gifts]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1763 Veganism and trace amounts of animal products]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1312 Working with meat.]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1593 Times When You’ve Accidentally Eaten Animal Products]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1608 Eating Non-vegan Food Offered By Family?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1728 Should I have compromised?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=996 First time since April.]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=880 Do you eat with meat meaters?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=770 Vegans purchasing nonvegan food for nonvegans?]
 +
* lack of meat aversion – [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=378 Hi]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=507 A few questions]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=421 Clean utensiles between non-vegan/vegan use?]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=406 old leather]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=217 Paris exemption]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161 “][https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161 Oh, I’m Not One of THOSE Vegans”]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79 Veganism vs Vegetarianism]
 +
  
 
=== Community ===
 
=== Community ===
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=330 Chlorine and Bugs]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=330 Chlorine and Bugs]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45 Companion Animal Care]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45 Companion Animal Care]
 +
  
 
=== Vegan Music ===  
 
=== Vegan Music ===  
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=579 Open Letter to Matt]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=579 Open Letter to Matt]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3232 A Synopsis of the Ethics of Eating Cows by Matt Dillahunty]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3232 A Synopsis of the Ethics of Eating Cows by Matt Dillahunty]  
 +
  
 
==== Discussion groups ====
 
==== Discussion groups ====
Line 1,022: Line 1,254:
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2965 How to deal with assholes who constantly lie about and misrepresent your views?]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2965 How to deal with assholes who constantly lie about and misrepresent your views?]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3366 Theory and Practice in Hellenistic Ethics (Nussbaum)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=3342 Virtue and Utopia (Andy Blunden)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3329 Can Franks’ Practical Anarchism Avoid Moral Relativism? by Thomas Swann]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2965 How to deal with assholes who constantly lie about and misrepresent your views?]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3279 Super fantabulistic introductions to virtue and existentialist ethics here]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=968 Is veganism based on utilitarian ethics?]
  
  
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=513 subjective morals and veganism]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=513 subjective morals and veganism]  
  
−
=== Ethical Nihilist ===
 
  
 +
=== Nihilism ===
 +
 +
* [Virtue Ethics is [essentially] a form of consequentialism]
 +
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3358 Ethical Nihilism / Moral Skepticism / Existentialism / Speculative Realism... ask away!]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3353 Agamben Homo Sacer animatic (Tommie Soro video)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3352 Optimistic Nihilism (Kurzgesagt video)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3348 I'm Zach ( I eat a vegan diet)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3330 Post Anarchist and Radical Politics today by Saul Newman]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3305 Re: Farmed Animal Sanctuaries: The Heart of the Movement? by Donaldson and Kymlicka]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3309 Between the Species; An Interview with Sue Donaldson and Will Kymlicka]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3310 Solidarity in diverse societies (Kymlicka)]
 +
* [http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3306 Afterword: Realigning Multiculturalism and Animal Rights (Kymlicka paper)]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3180 Contemporary Anarchism, Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy by Aragorn Eloff]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3180 Contemporary Anarchism, Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy by Aragorn Eloff]  
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179 ‘][https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179 Nailing Descartes to the wall’: Animal Rights, Veganism and Punk Culture,” by Will Boisseau and Jim Donaghey]  
+
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179 Nailing Descartes to the wall’: Animal Rights, Veganism and Punk Culture,” by Will Boisseau and Jim Donaghey]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3173 Disturbing Places of Inter-Species Violence That Are Hidden in Plain Sight]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3173 Disturbing Places of Inter-Species Violence That Are Hidden in Plain Sight]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2998 Moral nihilism and veganism]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2998 Moral nihilism and veganism]  
Line 1,045: Line 1,294:
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2973 Existential questions raised in ‘Rick and Morty’]
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2973 Existential questions raised in ‘Rick and Morty’]
  
−
=== Unsorted ===
 
  
 +
== Ethical issues ==
  
−
==== General ====
 
  
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3215 Ethical Milk: Is it possible and what would it cost? (UV video)]
+
=== Why Go Vegan? ===
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3210 What about Love???]
+
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3045 Food for the Body and for the Soul?]
+
*
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3039 Survival of the fittest and Social Justice?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3052 Life Loving – What is that you say ???]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3046 Veganism as a complimentary lifestyle !]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3011 South Lakes Safari Zoo – Discussions on zookeeping.]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2859 eating insect pollinated crops]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2913 Cereals fortified with Vitamin D from Sheep Wool]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2749 Eating vegan at fast food restaurants?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2850 Crash Course Philosophy: Non-Human Animals]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2696 Palm oil]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2562 Do bees make a surplus of honey?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2428 Is Eating Organic Vegan?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2332 Is it vegan to eat at McDonalds?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2174 do shrimps suffer?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2123 Killing Boars?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=801 OYSTERS & VEGANS]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1967 On Sugar: cane, coconut or agave?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1910 Are There Problems With Almond Milk?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1913 Vegan and pro Animals in Medical Experiments]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1908 Animals and medicine]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1835 Just found out about palm oil.]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1880 Insects]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1690 As a semi-vegan?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1897 Are you surprised/disappointed by the slow spread of veganism?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1113 What about insects?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1519 Remove eggchickens]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1524 Are Antidepressants Vegan?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1507 Pro choise and vegan?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1491 cowspiracy-> problem:cow farts solution: cow-holocaust ?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1487 Product like palm oil]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1583 Is Eating HONEY Ok?!?!]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1536 Are “Cage-Free” eggs really more humane?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1359 May contain …]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1352 Organic Foods?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1423 Is it moral to eat insects?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1406 How do you square being vegan with being pro-choice?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1517 Cheese]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1244 Should one be vegan even in lucid dreams?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1103 CRUELTY FREE SCHOOL SUPPLIES?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1215 Honey?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1097 Reprogramming predators]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1166 Free Range Chickens and Dairy Cows]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1148 Service Animals]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=967 Honey for Vegan]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=875 Ocean Life Extermination]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37 Experiments on Animals]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=928 Animal Products For Clothes As Well As Honey/Waste]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=545 What do you think of Bullfighting?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=719 Are eggs okay?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=567 Vaccines, Flu Shots, and eggs]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=595 Conflicted regarding family-owned farms]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=412 Eggs, kind of….]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=403 Going easy on leather]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=384 Are Windows Cruel?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=379 Help again]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=344 Are Almonds Vegan? (please read, serious question)]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=333 fish, pain?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=332 sentient]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=243 Veal vs. Meat]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=265 Redesigned Zoo?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=119 Do you buy/consume Coca Cola products?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=232 Fishing]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=206 CockFight (The Horror!)]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=152 Buying vegan stuff from companies that also produce meat]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61 Animal killing for Game of Thrones]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=55 Less sentient, less rights?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1326 Book recommendations]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=80 Book recommendations]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16 Invasive Species]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=404 Invasive species, what can even we do?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3077 Moral illusions and wild animal suffering]
 
  
  
−
==== Indigenous rights ====
+
=== Indigenous rights ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3029 Culture clash and cultural sensitivity]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3029 Culture clash and cultural sensitivity]  
  
  
−
==== Moral solipsism/relativism ====
+
=== Moral solipsism/relativism ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3168 2 Questions About Logical Inconsistency & Morality]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3168 2 Questions About Logical Inconsistency & Morality]  
Line 1,140: Line 1,318:
  
  
−
==== Humanism ====
+
=== Humanism ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3181 Don’t care about animals? 5 reasons you should still go vegan (UV video)]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3181 Don’t care about animals? 5 reasons you should still go vegan (UV video)]  
  
  
−
==== Anti-natalism ====
+
=== Anti-natalism ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1407 Is it vegan to have children?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1407 Is it vegan to have children?]  
  
  
−
==== Strong AI ====
+
=== Strong AI ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3118 My dear Smartphone Sentient Part 2 !]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3118 My dear Smartphone Sentient Part 2 !]  
Line 1,156: Line 1,334:
  
  
−
==== Atheism ====
+
=== Atheism ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2914 Dealing with irrational atheists]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2914 Dealing with irrational atheists]  
Line 1,164: Line 1,342:
  
  
−
==== Religion ====
+
=== Religion ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3096 Easter, Monotheism, Veganism, Animal life…]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3096 Easter, Monotheism, Veganism, Animal life…]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=664 The similarity between Meat Eaters and Creationists]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=664 The similarity between Meat Eaters and Creationists]  
 +
 
  
  
−
 
+
=== Economics ===
−
==== Principles ====
 
−
 
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3227 What do I do with leather items?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2431 Should I throw away my feather pillows?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2630 Thoughts on Non-Vegan Gifts]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1763 Veganism and trace amounts of animal products]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1312 Working with meat.]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1593 Times When You’ve Accidentally Eaten Animal Products]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1608 Eating Non-vegan Food Offered By Family?]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1728 Should I have compromised?]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=996 First time since April.]
 
−
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=880 Do you eat with meat meaters?]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=770 Vegans purchasing nonvegan food for nonvegans?]
 
−
* lack of meat aversion – [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=378 Hi]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=507 A few questions]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=421 Clean utensiles between non-vegan/vegan use?]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=406 old leather]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=217 Paris exemption]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161 “][https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=161 Oh, I’m Not One of THOSE Vegans”]
 
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* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79 Veganism vs Vegetarianism] 
 
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==== Economics ====
 
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3150 Food Sovereignty/ Traditionalism – the strongest argument for eating meat (the reason why we need more investment. . .]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3150 Food Sovereignty/ Traditionalism – the strongest argument for eating meat (the reason why we need more investment. . .]  
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==== Hypotheticals ====
+
=== Hypotheticals ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3264 Tick that causes meat allergy (for life)]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3264 Tick that causes meat allergy (for life)]  
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==== Anti-Speciesism ====
+
=== Anti-Speciesism ===
  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2631 Are you a speciesist?]  
 
* [https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2631 Are you a speciesist?]  

Latest revision as of 13:57, 18 February 2018

We should add this and the 'About' page to the sidebar also, can I gets admin privileges to do this please? Also shall we private message the regular users of the forum? I'm really happy putting in the lions share collecting and editing quotes of arguments, but might be good to have a few eyes on how people would like the table of contents to look like and what advice pages would interest them most. Also what's the role of bureaucrats? Just would like to know these things and be offered the option if I'm putting in a lot of the work, not that I'd definitely want the job --NonZeroSum (talk) 05:23, 15 July 2017 (CEST)

Didn't see this before. All trustedUsers now have the right to edit the sidebar. I'm not sure what bureaucrats are for now. Originally I think they're just meant to assign users to groups. I added in some permissions so I could redact IP addresses, but now because only logged in users can edit it's impossible (I think) for them to show anymore. I don't think we will have so many users that it will be much of a job. My plan is just to add recognized users to the trustedUsers group, which will have whatever powers are useful. Ideally bureaucrat will be an obsolete job once I figure out the permissions.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 06:12, 24 July 2017 (CEST)


Contents

Full list of pages


Categorised


Not part of the table of contents

NTT

Redirects

Wiki

Potential video library page


Sorting

Unsorted threads in ‘All the arguments against,’‘Advocacy,’ and ‘Ethics’ are unduly long and could use sub-categorizing better, whilst others could use merging, so can throw out ideas for a rough table of contents now but I imagine it will emerge as well with what pages we most enjoy writing. --NonZeroSum (talk) 05:23, 15 July 2017 (CEST)

Whay, successfully transferred all the hyperlinks for the categorized list of every thread on the forum to the table of contents talk page, so we can all edit it now on one page.
And the main table of contents page is red linked now so people can simply click on a broken hyperlink and start writing the page, as I said above feel free to create your own, merge or split categories further.
If you ever want to copy any format you're working on into libreoffice word, you can save it as a mediawiki file, then it's only a bit of rejigging with find and replace tool in officeword to clean up further. --NonZeroSum (talk) 23:50, 19 July 2017 (CEST)


Diet/Nutrition

Really great work on Diet/Nutrition, maybe just one thing, you changed Drugs in Lifestyle to Recreational and Medicine, the forum threads categorized under drugs were talking about recreational so that makes sense and one on self medicating for mental health, so I think all medicine will likely be covered in the disease prevention and optimal nutrition sections. The threads that I originally categorised into medicine was a subcategory of principles, mostly hardcore vegans coming onto the forum asking about the trace animal products in medicine they had no alternative too. Will take it out for now, but if you had something in mind change it back no problem. --NonZeroSum (talk) 10:56, 26 July 2017 (CEST)

I was thinking dietary measures in disease prevention/treatment; that is, specifically vegan relevant. Medical interventions are something we don't need to cover really, since that's mainstream and I'm sure others do that much better than we do, we just need to discuss the ethical aspects regarding animal testing or ingredients in medicines. Where did supplements go? That might fit with something like a beneficial substances, before dangerous ones. --BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 23:17, 26 July 2017 (CEST)
No worries, OK moved it from under 'Principles' in the 'Ethics' section to under 'Nutrition and Health,' just felt odd before under 'Lifestyle' when it's often not something people have any option over, but with the ethics section turning into moral schools of thought, specific ethical situations like medicine can be covered under Health. Agreed good place to talk about animal testing, animal ingredients and anti-vaxers etc. --NonZeroSum (talk)


Lifestyle

2 questions people come to the forum to ask a lot, categorized in 'General' and 'Principles' under 'Ethics' at the moment. Maybe can move to lifestyle or will merge with other sections as project goes along.

Aha, yes, that's a good idea. I just didn't get the Principles heading. Although they are related, having them separate articles is good because there's a lot to say on those topics. I think lifestyle is a good place. --BrimstoneSaladWiki


Ethics


Existentialism

I removed this from the list under ethics for now while categorizing because I don't know where it belongs. Existentialism isn't really normative, or has a lot of mixed interpretations. See: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existentialism/ I think it probably belongs in a political subsection, or under spirituality. Existentialists were pretty hard line against nailing down any single consistent philosophy, and disagreeing with each other, so we don't really have a clear summary of what normative existentialist ethics look like, or the basis for its meta-ethical claims. It seems to be more literary, political, and spiritual in nature. Can you explain what the article would contain, or make some short summaries of the normative and meta-ethical positions so it can be categorized in context with other articles? Or should we put this in another area, and if so what (political, spiritual?)--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 23:29, 31 July 2017 (CEST)

You're right that it's not normative in the Universalist sense, there are 3 distinct schools; Universalist, Relativist and Nihilist:
Meta-ethics #Substantial theories
Also see wiki/Moral nihilism
Think about it like this, where a relativist would say the most ethical thing to do is participate in a drum circle for 8 hours in order to go more in sync with your community and learn to act as one whole, and the global consequentialist would say the most ethical is to stand up to your community and spend your time giving charity to the neighbouring village who are more open to help, the nihilist can accept the consequentialist view in theory but might spend half an hour at the drum circle in order to keep that family connection and learn something about themselves which felt entirely necessary, because if they didn't spend any time on the virtues everyone might become an unfeeling ghost and the quality of life that is produced from charity/solidarity is lessened. So it just asks for the accommodation of another norm of authenticity.
It definitely isn't spiritual as existence preceding essence is the polar opposite truth that religion rejects, Kierkegard, Wittgenstein and Spinoza can be seen as precursors to existentialism simply because they reinvented religion from it's tyrannical force to something entirely arbitrary, and took the view that it was a leap of faith to something pleasant, which couldn't be aligned with most of the the worlds religions.
So even though a lot of the ideas will be able to be merged with virtue activism on specific pages, to understand whole movements and groups it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist.
The standford articles are great, I spend many days reading their site, put all the most important quotes together here Ethical Nihilism
Also a good conversation comparing and contrasting virtue ethics and existentialism
This conversation also is based around the stanford article of Wilfred Sellars which has existentialist implications - The scientific image of man, Sellars
--NonZeroSum (talk) 07:52, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
"because if they didn't spend any time on the virtues everyone might become an unfeeling ghost" That's consequentialist reasoning. --BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
Aye it was an argument for existentialist virtues via consequence, but do you understand how because we're always swimming through relativist societies and peoples subjective value theories that what is most important to the nihilist would be having their ethical choices felt and understood. --NonZeroSum (talk)
"it will be important to have a page explaining where the desire towards existentialist goals come from, from amoral to supremely humanist/animalist." I agree with that. This is more of a question, then, of "why be good?" rather than what good is (which is answered by the normative theories). This is a good reference to start the page, and then maybe pull in existentialist arguments? https://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=1932 --BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 21:10, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
Sounds like a plan: Why go Vegan? --NonZeroSum (talk)


Virtue ethics

Moved into new category, rule consequentialism.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 23:30, 31 July 2017 (CEST)

I really don't think that's a great idea as rule consequentialism is the umbrella term for referring to all consequentialist schools from utilitarian to virtue:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consequentialism-rule/#GloCon
I think you may have misunderstood what they're saying there (unless I misunderstand you). Rules do not refer to the core axioms of judgement of the ultimate consequences. Rules refer to the heuristics involved in reaching those consequences... a step removed, basically. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consequentialism-rule/#FulVerParRulCon Classical Utilitarianism is not a form of rule consequentialism, the article didn't make that very clear. There are, however, spectra and arguments for rule consequentialism within every consequentialist framework (usually what one would call partial rule consequentialism), including within Utilitarianism; the difference is more of an empirical outlook. Virtue ethics typically holds that we should cultivate virtues [as a rule] because those virtues result in good outcomes [either for the world, or for the ego as in some self-interested schools of enlightenment oriented Buddhism (as opposed to, say, Mahayana)].--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2017 (CEST)


Virtue ethics is very well known for being a distinct 'applied ethic' to utilitarianism and deontology again. Best to keep going with effective activism, virtue activism and alternative perspectives on the specific pages, then explain in the ethics section that virtues come under universalist consequentialism, and alternative perspectives were often either amoral, relativist or deontological. --NonZeroSum (talk) 07:36, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
Well known isn't always accurate, of course. If you ask the question "why?" then you can get at whether it is in fact consequentialist in some form. We usually find that it's a form of rule-consequentialism. It is distinct from Utilitarianism, but Utilitarianism is only one form of consequentialism. I'm fine with just putting them all under consequentialism, under universalism, with deontological the only outsider under universalism, and then relativism outside that, and leaving discussion of rule-consequentialism to inside the ethics articles. I agree that our current "EA, virtue, and alternative" is a good format within other articles on the wiki.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
That's helfpufl thanks, but yea the answer to why in virtue ethics is it develops character not ends, it's concerned with means, merging the acts-ends distinction.


Evolutionary ethics

Changed this to Evolutionary Ethics, since I don't think the meta-ethics alone can carry an article (on Wikipedia it's all one page) and other categories are not broken down into normative and meta-ethics.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 01:55, 1 August 2017 (CEST)

OK makes sense, put it all under Universalist then, and the Meta-ethics side of evolutionairy ethics can be discussed as a sub-title of the Universalist page. --NonZeroSum (talk) 07:36, 1 August 2017 (CEST)
I moved Evolutionary Ethics and the others up under Consequentialism. I saw you changed Universalist to realist, I think you had it right the first time. Universalism is a better general descriptor, since realism may be more contentious: Concerning the Correspondence of an Ethical System to the Definition of Morality --BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 01:01, 2 August 2017 (CEST)
Interesting reading! I read the same paragraph inator did on stanford about semantics and thought universalists had to stick to their guns and call themselves realists, like nihilists being speculative realists. But inator preferencing anti-realism was swayed by it to call themselves universalist.


Stjn's Theories

Minumum Complaint Theory

I removed this from the listing. This just seems to be the pet theory of a single person who presented it on the forum, and it doesn't make any sense/offer anything novel. (Note My and Inator's responses) If its originator can answer the challenges in a coherent way we could include it, but if we include every personal system here regardless of value I think we'll end up drowning out the signal of mainstream information with noise.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 23:18, 31 July 2017 (CEST)

Fair enough, went back and looked at the moral hand theory too and that was also Stjn's paper, so nothing that would require a whole page on. --NonZeroSum (talk) 07:36, 1 August 2017 (CEST)


Ethical issues

Maybe we can have an article on purity in general vs. pragmatism in Ethics.--BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 00:04, 3 August 2017 (CEST)

Aye, sounds good.


List of threads to draw from

Wiki


Diet/Nutrition


Supplements


Medical


General


Recipes/Products


Advice/ Nutrition


Sugar


Fringe Diets


Lifestyle

Is it Vegan?


Staying Vegan


Community


Dining Out


Career


Friends


Partners


Family


Companion Animal Care


Vegan Music


Body Building


Places to live


Zero waste


Freegan


Growing your own


Wild food gathering


Pest control


Anger management


Drugs


Advocacy


Food Evangelism


News and Commentary


YouTube commentary


All the arguments against


Public intellectuals


Celebrities


Controversial Advocacy


Abolitionist vs welfare approach


Activism


Projects


Open Letters


Discussion groups


Ethics


Universalism

Consequentialism


Utilitarianism


Deontology


Virtue ethics


Evolutionary meta-ethics


Reletavism


Nihilism


Ethical issues

Why Go Vegan?


Indigenous rights


Moral solipsism/relativism


Humanism


Anti-natalism


Strong AI


Atheism


Religion


Economics


Hypotheticals


Anti-Speciesism


Misc

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