Revision as of 06:50, 11 November 2017

Learning the ropes

I'm going through mediawiki, help boards and sometimes other wikis in order to see how they write the html to format, sometimes I can find solutions other times I draw a blank. This is just bizarre, none of the examples they give are working, don't know why or how our mediwiki version is set up differently maybe. Click edit to see:

Template:Quote box

Template:Quote box Template:Lorem ipsum

That sounds like a really great quote box function. You're right, not working for me either... is there somewhere we can ask? --BrimstoneSaladWiki (talk) 23:06, 26 July 2017 (CEST)

Haven't found anywhere easy to ask yet, this one for tables works:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Table#Sorting

White Board

Working on my own youtube channel project at the moment, but assume some will eventually filter into pages on Companion Animal Care, Environmentalist, Consequentialist, Virtue and Nihilist. So really happy to get suggestions.

Unnatural Vegan vs. à-bas-le-ciel On Domestication

Unnatural Vegan Accessible Advocacy:You’re vegan, already got a cat and only just thinking about the implications of feeding them meat, no point stressing, try to get waste meat from butchers and let’s look out for a research team to fund a kick-starter to get better vegan/mostly vegan cat food. You want to rescue omniv/herbiv pet? Not effective altruism but might improve your well-being and compassion towards nonhuman animals, go you. No harm breeding dogs if return to stable world population. Advocates against cat adoption on basis of oblig carniv, diseases, etc.

Energy:

Give to mercy for animals, fund possible vegan cat food kickstarter, more accessible sanctuaries, adopt if it’s important to you.

Questions:

In an ideal future are you against all predation e.g. lions eating antelopes? In a future where we’re not reliant on animals in any way (e.g, bees for pollination) would they like to see all land taken up by humans with only a few reserve habitats for museum purposes?

----------------a-bas-le-cielProductivity/ Goals:Maximizing ability to use all of our/their capabilities/character virtue of humans and non-human animals: not about settling or everyone as individuals reducing suffering around them, but a political movement to move from livestock and pet industry to getting well managed wildlife habitat, where the most amount of animals can fill their needs. Psychology:Child-like dependent domesticated animals being something distasteful that we wouldn’t wish on humans so why other animals?Symbolically:Having pets is like walking around with 2nd hand leather, someone irresponsibly bred it, you’re perpetuating the industry.

Energy:

Don’t adopt pets like video games or drugs. Provide options to fulfil some of herb pets needs even if risks disease or predation. Open a vegan bakery/restaurant before opening a sanctuary, acknowledges useful revenue source from running shelter that can go into advocacy.Question: Got a wealth of videos and patreon feed so I think I have everything, but be useful to read what questions are felt left unanswered after watching 1 or 2 videos from Eisel.

Quotes & Cliffnotes

Advocacy

Vegans and the Indigenous Issue: Hunting, Domestication & the Concept of Evil.

Respect for animals that lived by their own capabilities. Ally with those who would only eat meat they hunted themselves.

Domestication vs. “the Wild”: Vegans & the A.R. Paradigm

I think with nobody really noticing it with nobody drawing a line on a map or turning a new chapter in a book we switched from a whole discourse that really cared about wilderness and even moderate ecologists and so on back then forest habitat though rainforest save the rainforest those were the big looming paradigms around everything in ecology and indeed even vegetarianism was promoted by saying save the rainforest stop eating beef that causes the rain forced to be cut down etc etc and again that's really much more based on lumber and less based on gaseous emissions but the idea of what is the proper relationship between human beings and animals in that paradigm is actually one of fear and mistrust and taking out a map and saying okay that area over there is for the elephants and tigers and this area over here is for human beings and fundamentally our job as human beings is to leave the animals alone is not to haunt them to extinction not to hunt it not to chop down their forests but it is also not to domesticate them not to use them as decorations for carpets not to use them as you know warm-blooded toy plaything teddy bear not to use them to entertain or children or what have you.

Is Owning Pets Vegan? (vegans alienating everybody, including each other)

it's one thing to tell people that animals feel to and so eating them is wrong it's another thing to tell people that rescuing cats and dogs from imminent death and bringing them into a loving home is wrong there's also the argument that the institution of pet ownership itself is bad which is also irrelevant yes some people abuse their pets are you doing that it's much like the argument that because animals are abused in the production of eggs and dairy and ultimately killed that it has to be that way that it's impossible to produce these products without abuse backyard rescue hens who are treated well and who are not just killed as soon as egg production drops are a great example of why blanket statements like this are not true just because you are capable of abusing an animal doesn't mean that you will and while you have no control over abuses that occur commercially having a pet and the level of care that you provide for that pet is something that you do have full control over it's also important to note that when it comes to animals ownership is limited obviously in the eyes of the law adopting a dog is not the same as buying a table or some other inanimate object you cannot do anything you want with the dog but I'm pretty sure the government's not going to care what you do with the table

I don’t hate Eisel, but I am disappointed.

I'm not saying Eisel is going to encourage people to undergo  life-altering  you know procedures or give up on higher  education to pursue a YouTube career or  any of the other crazy stuff that hardly promotes although you know given his  misguided views on pet  station and how supposedly easy it is  for animals previously living in  captivity to revert to their feral  nature if released into the wild it's  possible that somebody would believe  this to be true and actually released  you know their pet into the wild where  would it would most assuredly die you  may see that as beyond the realm of  possibility  but many people imagine someone  listening to Harley or Frehley or vegan  gains and you know actually going under  the knife you know for a potentially  irreversible procedure as beyond the  realm of possibility it clearly is not.

7 ways vegans alienate everybody, including each other (bad vegan activism)

anti-pets and you know pet ownership, owning pets, I did a video on this one very recently and as I say in the video; “making these claims it's not only incredibly alienating since most people think owning pets is perfectly fine and that adopting them is great and they have pets themselves but it likely makes the vegan movement look really silly you know it's one thing to tell people that animals feel to and so eating them is wrong it's another thing to tell people that rescuing cats and dogs from imminent death and bringing them into a loving home is wrong” I find the anti-owning pets stance very similar to the antinatalism stance in terms of like level of alienation I guess you know just like most people view having children it's a very good thing most people view adopting pets as a very good thing having a companion animal is also often cited as a reason for going vegan again just like you know people are raising children caring for a dog cat bunny ferret you know whatever and making it part of your family equated that with exploitation it's probably going to come across rather callous and nonsensical to most people whether they have pets or not

Autonomy vs Dignity, Wildlife in Veganism and Ecology in the 21st century

Dogs vs. Wolves: Vegan Ethics and the Future of Activism.

Zoopolis: a NON-VEGAN Political Theory of Animal Rights

Anthropomorphism, Domestication (of Pets) vs. the Wildlife Management Paradigm.

Q&A about my “Core Message”, Domestication vs. the Wild, etc., with Alejandro.

Veganism is NOT a Social Justice Movement.

I got an email a few days ago asking me about yes implies technology that’s about questions now coming in a boat managing deer population and so on great questions I got a question a few days ago asking me about backyard chickens and this is somebody who approached veganism from instead this not not my perspective I guess from the common perspective and this person really sincerely felt that my approach the wildlife management approach fails to address whether or not it’s okay to eat eggs from chickens raised in your backyard in a coop but it’s the world’s most comfortable chicken coop all this bullshit this animal welfare is approach bullshit right and I was able to write back and say look you obviously haven’t watched even one of my videos on what the wildlife management approach to veganism is and why argue it okay not only do I think it’s immoral for you to eat the chickens eggs that are raised in your backyard I not only don’t think it’s immoral for you to raise them in captivity of any time I think it’s immoral for you to feed the chickens my philosophy can be summed up with a sign we’ve all seen please do not feed the Bears I do not want animals several relationship of dependency on human beings at all I reject domestication of animals entirely okay the Bears in the forest should try to feed themselves and when they can’t feed themselves they should starve that’s the life of a bear in the wild period dogs should not be our pets we should not pretend to dogs are our friends dog should exist only in the wild where they can feed themselves or starve and guess what folks it’s literally a dog-eat-dog world if you know anything about our dogs exist in the wild dogs do kill and eat other dogs right and there’s a line of the map and I don’t think the bears have the right to come in and live in the city I don’t think the bears have the right to come in and eat the garbage out of your garbage can obviously it’s dangerous

Come On, FhqwhFgads: Vegan Gains Feeds His Dog Meat.

#DOGGATE: An Analysis (Vegan Gains vs. Vegan Cheetah)

Vegan Gains bought a wolf dog from a breeder & now feeds her meat

Psychology

Why Omnivore Outrage Over the Yulin Dog Meat Festival is Okay

Meat eating pet ownership is irrational, but that compassion can gateway into caring about all animals.

Veganism Compassion, Contempt and Loathing

Real Talk. Veganism isn't just a doctrine of compassion; it involves some of the ugly aspects of human nature (including a great deal of contempt and loathing for "our fellow man"). @ Zahria 269 "There's a struggle to determine what the culture of the 21st century is going to be. And veganism is one ideology in that struggle."

Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel?

another problem that we have to be aware of something that a lot of people experience when they see an animal or a person in really deplorable conditions you know we would expect people to feel oh my god I feel so sorry for them I want to help them and feel like overwhelming compassion but often what people experience is disgust they feel like oh my god I need to get away from that and they start to see the animal organ or the human as the other so that is something to be aware of if you are wanting to take your kids to zoo and there are exhibits like that again like the hippo exhibit that I described that's disgusting they're in this disgusting water you can see like the shit in the water right like is that really something that you think is going to instill compassion in your child there's a good chance it won't and this is where

Unhealthy burdens

Critique of “Terrorism Lite”: Mic the Vegan, Glenn Greenwald, etc.

most cities you can't keep cheap for your record anyway yeah that is you can't even keep backyard hens right yeah sure without a permit or something yeah sure and guess why all those animals spread unbelievably horrible contagious diseases to your ins they spread horrible contagious diseases to one another and to people so it's no joke including your cat great article in The Atlantic Monthly called your cat is driving you crazy I think I must have sent you this article it was when I was in America and it was a neighboring town from where I was living in they were campaigning to try to get back here tends to be legal they go because they were illegal in the town that they were living in and it was just funny hearing their arguments for backyard hens ya know they had to do with cruelty to animals and like this is this is a way to not be cruelty Yeah right just keep it in a wooden box from the day it's fortunate it's time cruel about that just just anyway.

Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat)

7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (Why I Will Not Adopt Another Cat)

Energy/Money

Should vegans support zoos? Are they inherently cruel?

I would like to say farm sanctuaries are the answer unfortunately most farm sanctuaries are nonprofit and they are not very open to having people come to visit them I just looked at several near where we are and none of them are open to the public one is but it's like a only all the others they're looking for volunteers which is is great but if you're already going to volunteer you're probably already convinced that farm animals need help right you're probably already convinced you're probably already vegan right or at least hatchet Arian this isn't really appealing to the masses like the masses don't want to go and do work they want to go and experience a fun thing and look at some cute animals I guess my point is that I think a lot of these farm sanctuaries are missing a really big opportunity it costs so much money to care for these animals and it's really nice what they're doing but they could be reaching so many more people and doing so much more good and helping so many more animals if they allowed more people to come and visit and to actually see these animals because we know that this is one of the most important things we know that a lot of people credit their dogs and their cats with going vegetarian with giving up meat having a relationship with these animals I mean I can't imagine if more people could form relationships with the actual animals they're eating with cows and pigs and chickens that could just be incredible this actually reminds me of an article from the vegan strategists Tobias it's called is this big zoo better for animals than the wild and he talks about going to South Africa and going to what was called a safari but he he soon learned it was it was kind of a mix between a zoo and inta sanctuary they had ample space and not all animals could easily be found but they obviously couldn't leave the area because of senses there was a vet on the property providing medical care when an animal got sick herbivores and carnivores were separated the Lions could not hunt the Springbok for instance but were fed cows meat and antelope meat once a week this is not the wild and I'm sure many people would not feel entirely happy with such a situation they would probably prefer an environment for the animals in which they had full autonomy and life was as close to natural as possible I think that an important or the most important question here is what would the animals prefer this big zoo slash sanctuary or the wild I believe that if we answer the latter we might inadvertently be thinking in an anthropocentric way there might be less autonomy for sure but on the other side there seemed at first sight to be less suffer and I guess I'll leave it there you know I wish more farm sanctuaries would open to the public as far as me personally and zoos you know I again I don't go to zoos I haven't been to a zoo in a long long time it's not like you can choose well we're just going to go look at the clownfish and we're going to pay the money for the ticket and that money is just going to go to the classic you can't really do that if you're paying the ticket it's going for all of it it's going for the clownfish and it's going for the elephants

Riddle of the Lion’s Roar Animal Sanctuaries, Zoos & Wildlif

What does the word abolition really mean, what does the word sanctuary really mean I mean it's surreal the whole thing. I understand completely the sentimentality behind it I myself as a vegan i do care about animals but for me what makes sense is having animals die in the wild where other animals eat their corpse after they're dead it doesn't make sense to me to reproduce half of the problems with a farm and half of the problems of the zoo and to promote this animal sanctuary model as the solution to all our problems but with this boy sort of a little gray area when it comes to rewriting first line yeah I'm never reload first ever oh my gosh I've never been in the position where do I go somebody I'll did me and on the track why I had to rewrite my first I never even given given again that ultimately we have priorities we have limited amounts of money and everything else if I have the two hundred thousand dollars just even to compare the two humble examples okay buy a plot of land and open an animal sanctuary versus open a restaurants a vegan restaurant downtown somewhere let's say it's a vegan restaurant with a gym or something upstairs you know whatever and promote veganism you know to human beings uh to me you know the second option is much more meaningful as much more likely to really have a dynamic change in the world but still I mean I do understand why people want to have these these sanctuaries when I was in France I knew a couple of really hardcore vegan activists the one guy he had formerly been an employee of pettah for years they both just had years and years of experience with vegan activist of different kinds everything from giving pamphlets to lectures to showing movies they've done all kinds of vegan vegan activism and you know they also would go and volunteer at a sanctuary once in a while and they just said the reality of this sanctuary is because they don't kill the animals so they accept a certain number of animals and it's very finite how many horses can you really take care of for real-time money labor the food for the horses can you can you keep five forces maybe that's your capacity okay so you accept five horses and a certain number of dogs and a certain number of cats and a certain number of pigs and that's it and then the door is closed and those animals live for years and years until they die and then after that people including the people who donate money to you because somebody who's donated thousands of dollars to you phones you up and says look we've rescued this pig or the Sheep some circumstances there's the Sheep maybe it's a deer there's this animal in these circumstances anchor we want the dev put slip and you say no we can't help you we're already full and then the animal inevitably is either sent to a kill shelter so a shelter where it's kept alive for a couple of days for skilled or it's just shot in the head it hope this is the depressing day-to-day reality of animal sanctuary whether it's horses or whether they just do dogs or cats or what have you as I say for me the actual lives the animals that are on the sanctuary for me again it's better than some farms but it's it's very similar to some other farms including you know something like a petting zoo you know I think it's very very similar to a petting zoo.

Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat)

Q&A2 (Part 5!) Cats Eating Cows (“Pet Food”).

one of my fans on patreon wrote me that she was really inspired by what I had to say about pet ownership and she looked at her own situation with her pet rabbits so these were rabbits that were rescued not bought but she did acquire the rabbits in order to entertain her children so you know they rescued but again ultimately like zoo animals or like circus animals these animals are being kept alive you know to entertain human beings as a coot Ramon for um you know a bourgeois a human life style they're not they're not being reintroduced into the wild they're not being yeah they don't exist to have their own children to live their own lives to you know pray and be preyed upon you know they are being kept they are being domesticated for our entertainment so we can quote love unquote them uh-huh but she had followed up to before she saw my video she had followed the advice of vets who told her that the the rabbit should I should kept entirely indoors their whole lives and the vets have the reasons for that if the rabbits are outdoors they may be preyed upon you know a bird a bird of prey can come down and kill them a fox or a badger or I think even a raccoon can come in and kill a rabbit if it's in your backyard if it's outdoors and I think there are some other reason some of the diseases they can get from going out freely and and eating eating wild grass would okay so you know there's a rationale there for why that would say that um but this fan of mine she watched my videos and she thought about it and the basic point I made you know like about penguins yeah life is full of contradictions sometimes for various reasons you end up having to keep Penguins in captivity to prevent them from going extinct or to try to keep them temporarily until they can be reduced reintroduced into the wild there's been a disaster you know an oil tanker has covered their habitat with oil and we've got to keep them in captivity until they can go back to living in the ocean all kinds of reasons but what do you do with those penguins you don't chop their balls off and try to turn them into house pets you don't try to turn them into zoo creatures or entertainment or circus performers you don't try to domesticate them until they're cute and lovable and sit on your couch patiently while you watch TV try to make them in abdomen you try to keep them in a habitat that is as close as possible to what their conditions in the wild would be which can be extremely expensive and extremely difficult to provide an artificial habitat for four penguins very very difficult so you know this fan of mine looking at our own rabbits these rabbits had lived their whole lives on a concrete floor they'd never had the experience of digging in the soft earth they never looked up and seen a blue sky over their heads terribly sad so she did what she could she actually went out and bought a hutch you know a small wooden house a miniature house for these rabbits put it in her backyard and she changed these rabbits lives by letting them roam freely around the backyard during the day and at night she puts them in the hutch and she you know she could see the rabbit all their behavior was totally transformed for the first time they got to indulge in some of their wild behaviour not all but they were in a context that was closer to their natural wild environment they got to dig in the earth I got to dig burrows they got to eat grass they got to nibble on dandelions and yes you know what it's possible that instead of living for a greater number of years on a concrete floor and never experiencing those things it's possible that one of these days a falcon will swoop down and kill the rabbits it's possible that some other predator is gonna kill them as possible their life will be cut short but you know what death is a part of life and I don't know how vegans can lack a mature attitude towards that

Can cats and dogs eat a vegan diet? (why Sniff still eats meat)

Ethics

Tentative Vegan #1: What is Tentative Veganism?

Tentative Vegan #2: Animal Use vs Exploitation

Maybe you have like a backyard sheep is that possible I don't know maybe so you have like a sheep as a pet and you share it and you and you where it's it's waste again we're talking about essentially a waste product it's something that would go to waste if it were not used and you use it to make I don't know knit some gloves out of or something again if assuming that the the sheep that the animal is well cared for and loved and all of that and not harmed what is the harm what what is wrong with that situation.

I actually want to end with a question regarding pets domesticated pets because if there are any of you watching who still agree with these the use’s abuse type of thinking how do you feel about pets do you think that there's any difference between say having a dog or having a you know backyard rescued hen and consuming its eggs do you see any difference between the two because I I do not I see both relationships as mutually beneficial assuming that the or well cared-for you know they're receiving food and water and shelter and nurture and you are receiving companionship and eggs whatever else I don't know maybe you shave your dog and make little hats out of its fur I don't know that's probably on one of those like strange addiction' shows or something there's probably a person who shaves their dog and makes hats out of its fur that sounds like more of a cat lady thing to do though you would shave your cat and make a little hats out of it point is I would love to know what you think if you see a difference between something like having a dog as a pet and having a chicken as a pet and also consuming its unfertilized eggs.

Using Animals: Does Consent Matter? (follow-up to tentative vegan #2)

Tentative Vegan: What is the Point? (vegan advocacy…again)

Vegans don’t own pets: domestication and evil.

Pet Ownership as SLAVERY (vegan / vegans / veganism)

On Historical Nihilism (历史虚无主义) and Having a Philosophy in General

RE: Why I Am Not a Vegan (the1janitor)

the relevant point that I think you're missing is what makes owning a sentient being right or wrong and that's consequences the argument can be made that you know caring for having a dog a cat certain other species benefits these animals but you know every situation has to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis for instance adopting a dog a creature that has been bred to be very loyal and trusting of humans and to get great pleasure out of being a companion animal to humans is very likely not exploitative on the other hand buying an elephant a highly intelligent creature that travels miles a day and attempting to keep it you know in your backyard or in a zoo for that matter probably cannot be defended the dog will most likely benefit from being someone's pet the elephant will most certainly not but even in the case of dogs and other pets a happy life obviously is not guaranteed there are certainly instances where pets are abused not well cared for and there are laws in place to protect these animals and to deter future abuse in Texas specifically it is against the law to torture animals fail to provide food care or shelter abandoned animals transport or confine an animal in a cruel manner kill seriously injure or poison an animal cause an animal to fight with another use a live animal is law in a dog race triple horse which I mean come on Texas get it together injure an animal belonging to another person or seriously overworked an animal and these acts are punishable by $10,000 fine and up to two years in jail

spaying and neutering also has important consequences for the animals keeping an animal from breeding ensures less unwanted births and therefore less unnecessary suffering it also ensures less animals are available to sell or give away to people who are looking for a pet less animals we breed the more people are to adopt the animals that are already here

Stop castrating dogs and cats, you twisted sicko.

Your Cat Hates You: Unnatural Vegan is Wrong, and it Really Matters.

YOUR CAT HATES YOU: yet more on pets/domestication.

[Other voices: Vegan Gains is Against Pet Ownership. Here’s Why.]

[Other voices: Jae Costly reflects on pets for disabled people, trained “service animals”, etc.]

Your Dog Hates You: “Service Animals” and Airplane Pillows.

The Vegan Cheetah is RIGHT About Pets – My response!

Castration: vegan excuses for enslaving animals. Unnatural Vegan.

Stop castrating dogs and cats, stop making excuses for it.

Zoos and/or/as the Meaning of Life Conversation with Jae Costl

Real Animal-Lovers Don’t Own Animals, Don’t Raise Animals, Don’t Keep Animals.

Can Lucy go to a wild wolf sanctuary

Why vegans shouldn’t shop (adopt don’t shop, don’t buy from a breeder)

Is Destiny a psychopath? Or just delusional? (thoughts on the Vegan Gains debate)

Or maybe that would cross his arbitrary line, maybe he would declare abortion, birth control and interference with rape tantamount to murder as I explained earlier because it interferes with potential, if that's true though, this wouldn't justify him eating most meat either, if you are going for the best case scenario future options, then you clearly have to give most animals rights too. Intelligent animals are capable of learning social rules to varying degrees depending on their intelligence and of practicing them to the extent of their impulse control. Social and domesticated animals like dogs, cows, pigs and even chickens are particularly capable of learning civil behavior given the right environment. Just as humans are incapable given the wrong environment because notions of non-violence, of property rights, of just basic civility are learned, these are not things that are innate to human beings.But that's not to say it's rocket science, particularly just respecting the right to life, if well-trained domestic animals can respect Destiny’s right to life and avoid harming him and even property, why can't he do the same?

Captive Animals ARE NOT Companion Animals (Unnatural Vegan is NOT Vegan)

Will farm animal species go extinct if the world goes vegan? If so, does it matter?

Human Rights: A Nihilist's Perspective.

the contrast between someone who has this concept of human rights that they believe in and they then apply it to Cambodia or they apply it to Russia or that apply to Yugoslavia whatever the case may be or Iraq still ongoing and someone who sits back and says ok wait maybe I don't really know what you mean by Human Rights maybe I don't really know what the United States government means by Human Rights what the State Department or the office of the president means by Human Rights I'm gonna sit back I'm gonna look at this case study and I'm gonna learn from the reality of history I'm gonna learn what human rights really meant in the history of Yugoslavia Cambodia Russia China Iraq what have you and then I'm gonna draw my conclusions on this concept on the city ology what its enforcement really entails i

Nihilism If animals don’t have animal rights, why do humans

Doen’t claim human rights don’t exist, in some absolute ontological sense, but something creative and abstract, couched in cultural and aesthetic considerations.

Whether or not something is poetry, whether or not you can recognize it as poetry, whether or not you can appreciate or enjoy it as poetry gets into a lot of tricky questions that are not based in a strict and simple sense on belief, right?

But if you ask me do animals have poetry? My answer is no. Poetry is part of human society and we may write poems for or about animals, we may project poetic qualities unto animals in our works of art, we may you know depict them in a poetic way, we may in a sense have animal poetry within human culture, but this is so to speak a set of abstract and largely aesthetic values human beings have created.

And likewise when we talk about rights, human rights, partly what we’re talking about is a very simple legal idea, I mentioned that in an earlier video, do you or do you not have the right to drink alcohol in a public park, in some countries you do and some you don’t

New Values Politics, Personhood, Meaning of Life

Multiculturalism vs. Social Cohesion: “Trust” as a political concept.

What will happen to farmed animals if the world goes vegan?

Life is Suffering Have Babies Anyway. (Against Anti-Natalism)

my model of ecology is not based on minimizing my impact in the world it's based on maximizing