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| − | Groups/movements that don’t live up to our ethical standard, but who we may find useful to collaborate with to achieve our campaign goals.
| + | == Reducitarian == |
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| − | = Animal rights legislation = | |
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| − | == More expensive high welfare regulation == | |
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| − | == Speceisist slaughter/hunting abolition ==
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| − | = Wildlife Habitat Expansion =
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| − | == Invasive species hunting/fishing ==
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| − | So types of hunting and horse riding under the title of allies in achieving the goal of wildlife habitat expansion, so for example a shoot hunting club with a lot of members is able to buy up a lot of farm land and they achieve it with grants from the government because vegans have been petitioning to restore that area to wetland, I'd see that as a win. Then just hope our advocacy further down the line stop's people hunting altogether. I'm not for allying with blood-sports like fox hunting or animal entertainment like horse racing.
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| − | Hunting groups generally only do things that benefit hunting. Sometimes this involves creating habitats that sustain more animals, but the objective is basically always to boost their numbers so there are more to hunt. We should firmly oppose this.
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| − | Yes we should still advocate against artificially boosted numbers of deer, but all still while being happy that we were able to help convert farmland back to a thriving eco-system, which is a step in the right direction.
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| − | Shoot hunting like for subsistance or supplement your pantry on the cheap isn't done for sport, so wouldn't fit the definition of a blood sport. I think it's honestly tricky and has to do with intent. I think the order by which we focus to bring the most amount of people to veganism in the shortest amount of time is:
| + | More psychologically inviting, but does the label long term hinder people from ever making concrete steps? And do we lessen the chance of making new vegans who will get organized and make some of the next big innovative differences? |
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| − | Blood sports
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| − | Animal farming
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| − | Shoot hunting
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| − | We can politicize the sadism of activities such as bull fighting and fox hunting, done to get to enjoy dogs ripping apart another dog species for no reason.
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| − | Then the confinement/ forced breeding in animal farming.
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| − | Then the least objectionable ecologically, where the animal has lived a good life and hunter is at least taking responsibility for what they're eating. But still obviously ending a life earlier than necessary so not something you should want to do.
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| − | Why is "wildlife management" considered a vegan gray area but "invasive species hunting" considered "not living up to ethical standards?" Surely, hunting invasive species is at least as ethically justifiable as hunting in general
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| − | Wildlife management can mean absolutely necessary culling with a plan to solve the problem as quickly as possible.
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| − | wildlife management can also mean unnecessary culling. whereas invasive species hunting i would argue is always a good thing even if motivated by reasons not related to ecology.
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| − | No as categories both can be done badly, but invasive species hunting is certainly not always good, people can be terrible shots and torture the animals or develop a sadistic joy from it which they transfer onto people like the high rate of slaughtehouse workers who commit domestic violence. At the end of the day you just shouldn't want to involve yourself in killing, you should cherish the wonder of every life you can observe in nature, if another animal kills a prey species 5 minutes later for survival and the only way it can get strong to pass on it's genes, then that's all wonderful too and it's 5 minutes extra alive.
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| − | Yeah but what I don't understand is... All of that applies to ordinary hunting as well?
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| − | I guess what you meant by "wildlife management" is genuinely intelligent caring wildlife management and not just a generic term which is often an excuse, in that case I 100% agree
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| − | Yeah I'm thinking of trained and researched wildlife officers following the best plan available.
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| − | == Wild animal farming ==
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| − | == Dog sledding and horse riding ==
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| − | None, I think blood sports and other competitive animal sports should be first in line to go as we're able to get the most public support behind ending them.
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| − | Horse riding however, can be part of an eco-tourist attraction and help pay for land to be freed up for wildlife and managed.
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| − | Also maybe you don't know but Foxhound drag hunting clubs have been around since the 1800s and are courses that horse, rider and foxhounds simply ride around with interesting obstacles, the more courses like it that country social life can form around, the more foxes get saved from actual fox hunting clubs who are pretending to trail hunt an artificial scent. And bloodhounds are dogs which follow the scent of humans and are used in search and rescue.
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| − | == Foxhound drag-hunt racecourse & Bloodhound hunting ==
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| − | == Sighthounds, coonhounds, pointers, retrievers, ferreting & falconry to eat ==
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| − | = Low Impact Lifestyle =
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| − | == Localvore ==
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| − | So Locavore because they can offer us the outlook that a vegan for the animals definition doesn't cover, in our joint pursuit for a low impact lifestyle, we take from them that yes taking on the principle of seeing and choosing seasonal foods in the supermarket is pretty easy and something we should do. And we hope that they can learn from us why it's important to move towards cutting out animal products.
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| − | == Reducitarian ==
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| − | I'm open to the idea that it's always wrong to work with one of the groups, I'm always in two minds about reducitarians, whether people truly set themselves goals to get to veganism eventually.
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| | + | == Vegetarian == |
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| − | == Vegeterian ==
| + | Some mostly vegan Vegan under the radar, distance from some polarizing vegan activism. |
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| − | Only thing is there's not much of a two way street that can be learnt, it's just waiting for them to catch up. I guess could talk about them helping us tailor our advocacy to religions like wayward meat eating hindus and us helping them abandon religious reasons to drink milk aha.
| + | Them helping us tailor our advocacy to people eating meat against their own religious code. |
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| − | Vegan under the radar, distance from some polarizing vegan activism.
| + | Us helping them see how the the practical inclusion of animal products as ceremonial today should be avoided for not holding the same historical context. |
More psychologically inviting, but does the label long term hinder people from ever making concrete steps? And do we lessen the chance of making new vegans who will get organized and make some of the next big innovative differences?
Some mostly vegan Vegan under the radar, distance from some polarizing vegan activism.
Them helping us tailor our advocacy to people eating meat against their own religious code.
Us helping them see how the the practical inclusion of animal products as ceremonial today should be avoided for not holding the same historical context.
