Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hello! I'm a Canadian user toying with the idea of veganism. I have an egg allergy and am grossed out by red meat and thus already tend to lean vegan and minimally processed in my food choices because it's usually the more practical and safe option. I'm curious about veganism for ethical reasons and look forward to learning and discussing.
I have studied Biology in post-secondary with a focus on Biochemistry and Microbiology but have broad interests in bio in general. Philosophy is not my forte but I enjoy reading other people's discussions. Hope to talk to you soon!

Welcome worm! It's good to see you're already about halfway there. What do you find is the most difficult part in terms of transitioning? What about philosophy are you most interested in learning about?

Also, what kind of music do you like? Do you like Xasthur?

Thanks Red!
I think the most difficult thing is the social aspect. When I cook for myself, the food is generally vegan by default (maybe a milk product here and there) but when I am eating food someone else has prepared for me, I already feel like a burden with the allergy. As long as it won't kill me, I'll eat whatever someone gives me. My partner is Indigenous to Canada and hunting, fishing and using the products from these animals are a big part of his and his family's lifestyle so I am fed wild game/gifted hide items somewhat often. I don't have much difficulty with avoiding animal products outside of this as I use plant based products elsewhere in my life for cost, convenience and because they work.
Do you find that being vegan inhibits your social life at all? What do you do if a friend or family member wants to eat at a restaurant that has no vegan options, for example?
Not sure what I want to learn about in philosophy to be honest, it was a subject that was lacking in my education so far beyond taking philosophy of environment classes which are fairly focused. Just hoping to keep an open mind and read some engaging discussions!
I like metal. Not such a Xasthur fan, more of an Anvil enjoyer myself.

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 am I think the most difficult thing is the social aspect. When I cook for myself, the food is generally vegan by default (maybe a milk product here and there) but when I am eating food someone else has prepared for me, I already feel like a burden with the allergy.

What kind of milk do you use? You might be able to swap it out for a plant milk.

I can understand not wanting to feel like a burden, though the way I've remedied that is just by making my own food for every meal instead of having someone prepare it for me. I'm not sure what your situation is like however.

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amAs long as it won't kill me, I'll eat whatever someone gives me. My partner is Indigenous to Canada and hunting, fishing and using the products from these animals are a big part of his and his family's lifestyle so I am fed wild game/gifted hide items somewhat often. I don't have much difficulty with avoiding animal products outside of this as I use plant based products elsewhere in my life for cost, convenience and because they work.

Having a partner whose lifestyle sort of revolved around animal products like that certainly makes it harder to fully transition, though hunting/fishing for your own meat rather than buying farmed products is the much lessser of the evils. I am curious as to what @brimstoneSalad thinks about that.

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amDo you find that being vegan inhibits your social life at all? What do you do if a friend or family member wants to eat at a restaurant that has no vegan options, for example?

Usually these days doing out to eat as a Vegan with non-Vegans isn't a big deal since the vast majority of establishments tend to have at least ONE vegan option. If a restaurant these days in the year of our Lord Worm 2025 doesn't have a single Vegan option that's is very suspect, and it's almost always just a laggard who doesn't want to adapt with the times, since it's typical for a place to have at least a Beyond Burger on their menus, and I usually inform the people I'm going out with of the problem (I generally don't go out with people who aren't very understanding of vegans). Often they're understanding enough and would probably agree it's a little strange not not cater to vegans a little.

See our article on Dining Out:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/ind ... Dining_Out

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amNot sure what I want to learn about in philosophy to be honest, it was a subject that was lacking in my education so far beyond taking philosophy of environment classes which are fairly focused. Just hoping to keep an open mind and read some engaging discussions!

Well our primary focus here is on ethics, as you may have ascertained. We can introduce you to the basics then proceed from there. You don't need to be someone super well read on the literature to have an opinion on the topic and to be able to make sensible decisions. A solid grasp is usually more than sufficient.

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amI like metal.

I betcha like Children of BOREDom

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amNot such a Xasthur fan, more of an Anvil enjoyer myself.

Oh you like feeding your fantasy huh

Welcome worm, glad you joined!

Red wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:28 pm

worm wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 amAs long as it won't kill me, I'll eat whatever someone gives me. My partner is Indigenous to Canada and hunting, fishing and using the products from these animals are a big part of his and his family's lifestyle so I am fed wild game/gifted hide items somewhat often. I don't have much difficulty with avoiding animal products outside of this as I use plant based products elsewhere in my life for cost, convenience and because they work.

Having a partner whose lifestyle sort of revolved around animal products like that certainly makes it harder to fully transition, though hunting/fishing for your own meat rather than buying farmed products is the much lessser of the evils. I am curious as to what @brimstoneSalad thinks about that.

I would say just go vegan except for that, because eliminating commercially farmed animal products makes a huge difference in terms of animal suffering and the environment.
When hunters only displace wild predators and fill their roles, hunting is pretty environmentally benign (aside from the potential species loss of native predators which is debatable -- IOW the question of "do species have intrinsic value?"), but hunting can be problematic when it fails to target sick or weak animals the way predators do (A practice of hunting the healthiest animals can increase suffering) or when hunters either hunt in excess or change the environment to increase the amount of prey as is often done for deer. Hunting isn't a sustainable food source on a human population scale, but it doesn't sound like you're necessarily promoting more hunting, and your partner may be hunting in contexts that are themselves less commercialized/ less subject to wildlife management. It's something worth talking about, probably, but I don't want to tell you to stir up things when you're avoiding 90+% of the harm without turning your life upside down if you can just go vegan with that exception.

Thanks @Red and @brimstoneSalad

What kind of milk do you use? You might be able to swap it out for a plant milk.

I don't really use milk. Just occasional cheese really... and butter. It's not that hard to switch those for other things though, so I've started doing things like putting hemp hearts and nutritional yeast on my pasta instead of powdered Parmesan which has been surprisingly delicious. It's a slow shift, I guess, but I'm getting there.

I can understand not wanting to feel like a burden, though the way I've remedied that is just by making my own food for every meal instead of having someone prepare it for me. I'm not sure what your situation is like however.

Honestly, bringing my own food to gatherings has become more frequent lately because I keep getting allergic reactions, which just makes everyone feel bad. Not always an option but definitely something I can do if there's time to plan ahead.

If a restaurant these days in the year of our Lord Worm 2025 doesn't have a single Vegan option that's is very suspect, and it's almost always just a laggard who doesn't want to adapt with the times,

There's a shocking amount of restaurants with zero vegan options in my city, I think it's a bit of a cultural thing. It's a fairly conservative city, and there are (as far as I've met) very very few vegans. Thank you for the Dining Out article, it was an insightful read!!

As for what @brimstoneSalad said,

I would say just go vegan except for that

This may be my move for now. My partner's family hunts and fishes together in a way that's informed by generational knowledge, which I'm not super well versed with. They do plan ahead which individual to target out of a population to help maintain the health of whatever animal population they're going for. This means targeting injured and old animals as well as picking an appropriate sex and time of year... not sure what all goes into that but it's not anything like trophy hunting.

Hunting isn't a sustainable food source on a human population scale, but it doesn't sound like you're necessarily promoting more hunting, and your partner may be hunting in contexts that are themselves less commercialized/ less subject to wildlife management. It's something worth talking about, probably, but I don't want to tell you to stir up things when you're avoiding 90+% of the harm without turning your life upside down if you can just go vegan with that exception.

This is very true, and it's worth noting that they are given special hunting privileges because of having Indian Status in Canada so I couldn't even hunt with them if I wanted to. Their family can hunt together, for immediate family members and household members, and they largely stick to the reservations which they are familiar with and have knowledge about in terms of the ecology and status of various animal populations. I don't feel as though I'm promoting hunting by accepting meats/products and even they aren't really promoting hunting because of how closed the practice is. (Of course, there's lots of hunting in my province, but it's more restricted and non-Indigenous people hunting is more likely to be a solo activity and be trophy-forward). As much as I would love if they didn't hunt or fish, I understand why they do and I don't think I want to try to remove my partner from the social/cultural aspect of hunting with his family.

worm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pm I don't really use milk. Just occasional cheese really... and butter. It's not that hard to switch those for other things though, so I've started doing things like putting hemp hearts and nutritional yeast on my pasta instead of powdered Parmesan which has been surprisingly delicious. It's a slow shift, I guess, but I'm getting there.

How do you find the replacements to taste compared to cheese and butter?

Nowadays vegan cheeses and butter are pretty good. Violife is probably the best for both for me, and Daiya (a Canadian company BTW) is also pretty good, much better than it was ten years ago. I think Daiya is switching to oat which I guess people find more palatable.

worm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pm Honestly, bringing my own food to gatherings has become more frequent lately because I keep getting allergic reactions, which just makes everyone feel bad. Not always an option but definitely something I can do if there's time to plan ahead.

That seems like pretty much the best option. People generally aren't going to question you bringing your own food since it might be seen as presumptuous to do so.

worm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pm There's a shocking amount of restaurants with zero vegan options in my city, I think it's a bit of a cultural thing. It's a fairly conservative city, and there are (as far as I've met) very very few vegans.

It is a little strange for a fully developed country, but even in the US and more traditional parts of Europe there are a lot more places that serve no vegan options (hell, even in some urban/suburban areas places like that exist, it's baffling). Guess you gotta do what they did in the 80s, get potatoes and french fries.

But really no matter where you go vegans will always be a vanishingly small minority, even in big cities.

worm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pmThank you for the Dining Out article, it was an insightful read!!

Thanks, I wrote it heh heh