Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hi, I'm trying to adapt to a vegan diet. I spent years doing low carb, even keto. For the past few months i've been moving in a more plant based, less low carb, direction.

I have many questions, but I'll start with this since I can't remember what else I needed to ask right now

How do you stay full?

I'm eating a 640 calorie breakfast (this all assumes cronometer isn't lying to me) with a pretty decent mix of macro and micro nutrients. I am not low fat, I could not do 80 10 10 at all, and, tbh, I don't really want to (each to their own, ymmv). I had about 30g protein, 50g carbs and 30g fats (nuts and seeds mainly).

Do I need to eat more protein? More fat? I'm hungry about an hour after eating. If this is adaptation, then does it pass soon? What if not?

Thanks

Well, what specifically are you eating for breakfast? 30g of protein for one meal is more than enough unless you're trying to gain muscle.

Do you eat the same thing every morning? I find oatmeal with a smoothie is pretty filling, though you could also trying snacking throughout the day on energy bars, fruits, and of course nuts and seeds.

Red wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:52 am Well, what specifically are you eating for breakfast? 30g of protein for one meal is more than enough unless you're trying to gain muscle.

Do you eat the same thing every morning? I find oatmeal with a smoothie is pretty filling, though you could also trying snacking throughout the day on energy bars, fruits, and of course nuts and seeds.

100g tofu

100g chickpeas

50g courgette

60g Broccoli

20g flax

1g cacao powder

50g rolled oats

10g pecans

30g frozen blueberries/raspberries

I eat the same every day and at the same time(ish). I have no problem eating the same meals. Never been an issue for me. If the meal is nice, I'm fine with it

Hmm, if you're eating that much it's strange that you don't feel full. Do you still feel the need to eat immediately afterwards, or do you wait until lunchtime?

Red wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:09 pm Hmm, if you're eating that much it's strange that you don't feel full. Do you still feel the need to eat immediately afterwards, or do you wait until lunchtime?

I eat that meal, feel full, and am hungry again an hour later.

automated hero wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:11 pm

Red wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:09 pm Hmm, if you're eating that much it's strange that you don't feel full. Do you still feel the need to eat immediately afterwards, or do you wait until lunchtime?

I eat that meal, feel full, and am hungry again an hour later.

What did your breakfasts look like before?

It could be something you need to adjust to due to overconsumption of protein in the past.

That said, you can increase how much plant protein you're eating for breakfast. 50g would not be odd if it's one of your bigger meals.

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 3:05 am

automated hero wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:11 pm

Red wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:09 pm Hmm, if you're eating that much it's strange that you don't feel full. Do you still feel the need to eat immediately afterwards, or do you wait until lunchtime?

I eat that meal, feel full, and am hungry again an hour later.

What did your breakfasts look like before?

It could be something you need to adjust to due to overconsumption of protein in the past.

That said, you can increase how much plant protein you're eating for breakfast. 50g would not be odd if it's one of your bigger meals.

I would eat more egg, more like a mixed egg tofu scramble. They aren't massively high in protein.

I'm not sure I'd agree that I was overconsuming protein. I know many vegans take the view you should eat around the DRA, but I lean toward the view that some people, like me, may need more.

automated hero wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:29 am Hi, I'm trying to adapt to a vegan diet. I spent years doing low carb, even keto. For the past few months i've been moving in a more plant based, less low carb, direction.

I have many questions, but I'll start with this since I can't remember what else I needed to ask right now

How do you stay full?

I'm eating a 640 calorie breakfast (this all assumes cronometer isn't lying to me) with a pretty decent mix of macro and micro nutrients. I am not low fat, I could not do 80 10 10 at all, and, tbh, I don't really want to (each to their own, ymmv). I had about 30g protein, 50g carbs and 30g fats (nuts and seeds mainly).

Do I need to eat more protein? More fat? I'm hungry about an hour after eating. If this is adaptation, then does it pass soon? What if not?

Thanks

If you eat whole foods from plants and you don't add oils, and certainly avoiding things to avoid like salt and processed sugar, having a variety vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, and grains, eat what you want until contentment, it will be right for you. We are designed for that, our culture abandoned that way. See Forks Over Knives.

automated hero wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:05 am I would eat more egg, more like a mixed egg tofu scramble. They aren't massively high in protein.

That is quite high in protein.

automated hero wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 4:05 amI'm not sure I'd agree that I was overconsuming protein. I know many vegans take the view you should eat around the DRA, but I lean toward the view that some people, like me, may need more.

There are only certain amino acids that are linked to reduced lifespan and healthspan, particularly those that animal products are rich in. There's a good reason to believe it's causative, mechanistically overnutrition increases the rate of cell growth and replication, burning the candle at both ends so to speak. Numerous animal models have shown the effect of these amino acids in controlled diets (so it's not just the saturated fat in the animal products having the effect).

"Overconsumption" depends on your goal. I just meant relative to actual biological need. But your goals may vary.
Is your goal to live longer and be healthier in old age, or is your goal to get buff in your youth in exchange for poorer health long term and a shorter life? Because it may not be overconsumption for a competitive powerlifter.

If you're talking about just feeling "full", this has to do with the satiation provided by proteins. You're used to eating more of them, and they are filling. Unless you have some kind of defect in your metabolism or digestion, you don't "need" that much protein. You may just need to adjust to a new diet. Or if you need to be satiated for weight loss goals you can eat more protein but be more mindful of the source. It's the *type* of protein you choose which will have implications for your health in the long term.

Methionine, Tryptophan, and BCAAs (branched-chain amino acids) which animal products are very rich in and are less common in plant proteins will almost certainly reduce your lifespan and healthspan (all other things being equal) given the weight of evidence.

There are some good arguments for eating more protein for it's filling effects to reduce weight gain. This has to be tempered by the health implications of certain forms of protein though.

FredVegrox wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:28 am If you eat whole foods from plants and you don't add oils, and certainly avoiding things to avoid like salt

Some oils are healthful, and there's no good reason to avoid salt if your doctor has not proscribed it.
Salt intake in moderation can help people eat more healthful foods like vegetables.

FredVegrox wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:28 amand processed sugar,

Processed sugar is controversial. It's empty calories, which is a problem for weight gain. It's less clear if it's as harmful when it's burned off through physical activity, particularly in the context of a diet otherwise high in fiber and antioxidants with adequate nutrition.
It's important to remember that sugar is one of the most efficient forms of calories (in terms of environmental footprint) that we have. It's also shelf stable, and has many other benefits.

If people are going to bike a hundred miles a day or engage in other extreme physical activity, I don't want to dissuade them from processed sugar inherently. I don't think there's good evidence against it in the context of adequate physical activity to prevent weight gain.