Philosophical Vegan Forum

I see it happen time and time again.

There are many obstacles the animal rights movement faces; Pseudoscience, yellow journalism, lobbying by the meat, dairy, and egg industry, widespread ignorance about things like nutrition and basic ethics, people unwilling to change, but I firmly believe that one of the biggest hinderances to the movement, well, is the movement itself. With so many of us promoting our own share of pseudoscience and ignorance of ethics and nutrition (like when we say fruit is all we need to eat, or when we don't eat enough protein rich foods), our open embracing of things like misanthropy, antinatalism, and anticapitalism, obsession with things like trace amounts of animal products, and being overemotional with our activism.

I'm trusting we all want to help animals, since they are unable to represent themselves, and we aren't just doing this on some narcissistic ego trip or trying to consolidate other ideas we have (anticaptialism, mistanthropy), and we are prepared with an adequete understanding of the science. If so however, why do we think it's OK to openly tout these obviously fringe ideas? Why do we give people bad advice on nutrition (which will make them feel unhealthy, which'll make them go back to eating meat)? Why do we split hairs over a product that may or may not have a tiny amount of possibly animal derived product? Do we think it's attractive when we cry and scream about the plight of animals in public or on Youtube videos?

Do some vegans even know why eating meat is bad, aside from some emotional reasoning of "it feels wrong"? People avoid doing a lot of things because they "feel wrong" (such as boycotting sweatshops), but just because something feels wrong does not mean it IS wrong. If our grasp on ethics is tenuous at best, how can someone reasonably be expected to convince a person why consuming animal products is wrong? In the face of criticism, we won't be able to properly defend veganism from an ethical standpoint.

Vegan activism isn't about us, about pushing our personal agendas, and inflating our egos. It's about the animals. Sure, we should only be concerned in what people think of us, but mainly only as far as it affects their views on veganism. Associating veganism with views that are shunned by society does not effective activism make. The more divisive we make veganism, the less animals we help.

It's troubling seeing the distrubing amount of vegans who make an effort to make veganism look like it's a stance against capitalism, and in my experience, these types tend to have a terrible understanding of economics (such as also boycotting vegan products since they're made by a non-vegan company), and fail to realize that no, veganism isn't a political move, it's ultimately an ethical one. Politics is by it's nature divisive. You really think you're going to help animals by appealing to fewer people, and severely reducing the chances of some pro-capitalist person ever going vegan?

Frankly, if my exposures to veganism were the bad representatives, I'm not sure if I would be vegan. I'm hoping we can get our act together and work as hard as we can as rational, informed, science-based vegans to crowd out the ignorant.

The movement is pushing forward painfully slow. I once thought the majority of the world would be vegan before the end of my life (most likely ca. 2070), but I am starting to doubt I will even see parity before I croke.

I don't think the factors you listed have a major impact. Celebrities declaring themselves vegan and then tweeting that they are back to eating meat and feeling much better is likely a heavier push against the vegan move.

On a positive note, the movement is still progressing. I would hate to see the day when the curve turns the other way.

Jebus wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:30 pm The movement is pushing forward painfully slow. I once thought the majority of the world would be vegan before the end of my life (most likely ca. 2070), but I am starting to doubt I will even see parity before I croke.

I think Veganism might take off in the west by that point, not due to people making an effort to go vegan, but rather the advacenment of science that will make lab grown meat widely available. We may not have a choice anyway, since meat is so unsustainable.

Jebus wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:30 pmI don't think the factors you listed have a major impact. Celebrities declaring themselves vegan and then tweeting that they are back to eating meat and feeling much better is likely a heavier push against the vegan move.

I certainly think that sort of bullshit has a major blow, but I firmly believe the collective endorsement of these extremist views is still a huge hinderance. It might not seem as significant because it's more of an individual by individual basis so it isn't as apparent as the celebrities anouncing their return to meat, but don't underestimate it's negative impact.

Jebus wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:30 pmOn a positive note, the movement is still progressing. I would hate to see the day when the curve turns the other way.

I don't think the movement will ever go the other way (unless it becomes a partisan political issue like climate change has become, then it's doomed), but I'm not sure how optimistic I should be of it's progression.