Philosophical Vegan Forum

omegaflare wrote:I was suppose to argue why hell exist until this guy blew me out of the water. Hell was never referred to afterlife experience, but rather it was a Greek translation "Gehenna" - you can view historical context via wikipedia here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot. ... henna.html
http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot. ... 9-and.html

I was wrong! Dave poked my loigc and argument and I had to understand historical context regarding Hell. All credit goes to unadulterated grace by Dave. I am grateful for him clearing up my mind. Not only that, I used to think "Satan" was the real deal until Dave cleared my mind up. Satan is just a term to describe sinful nature derived from human beings, not just a spiritual entity or being. Dave is a theist himself and he does believe in Jesus Christ. But he distant himself from so called "religion" and compare himself between a religious believer VS. grace believer. Many people stereotyped him as an "universalist" and/or "hyper-grace" but again, it's just a stereotype issued by many "religion".

Interesting quote here from the article below:

I worked at a health club years ago where a teenage boy lost in a tennis tournament we were hosting. The father slapped his son on the back of the head yelling at him and it continued all the way out of the health club and to their car. The owner and others (myself included) watched this poor kid get whacked by his father all the way to the car. The owner was asking permission from others watching it if they would be OK with him to go out and beat the tar out of the father. This teenager quit playing tennis altogether at our health club because of his dad. Let me ask you, why do many become atheists? Why do many wander away from Christianity? Why do so many struggle? Why do so many hate church? I see the “god” of religion in that father who beat his child all the way to the car for losing a tennis match.

That guys is completely spot on! See the whole article via link below:

http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot. ... erson.html

The primary reason why I hesitate to draft up an argument about the existence of God is because there were fallacies I had to address regarding "hell" and "Satan" - took me a good while to clear up my misunderstanding. It's all good now.

Dave really change my perspective a lot in terms of salvation, bible, God, and Jesus Christ himself:

http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot.com/

I used to think salvation is only exclusive for certain religion who "get the Bible right" but boy, I was wrong! Everyone is saved in the spirit because Jesus Christ died for ALL! Whether you're Atheist, Buddhist, Seventh-Day Adventist (sadly..), Catholic, or any other religious entity.

Look at 2nd Corinthians 5:14:

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead"

Romans 6:5 reads:

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"

Paul clearly said that “if one died for all, then were ALL dead.” Now look at 2nd Timothy 2:11:

"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him"

Look at 1st Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

1 John 2:2
King James Version (KJV)

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Look at 1st Corinthians 15:45:

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living SOUL; the last Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT."

"The above verse is important because annihilationists love to argue, “wages of sin is death…the SOUL that sins shall die” as they argue for extinction of unbelievers. Those verses they quote is exactly what Paul was saying, “In Adam ALL die.” The SOUL that sins shall die according to Ezekiel as that is the Adam who was made a living SOUL, as we die in him. Adam the living "soul" we all die, but in Christ the quickening spirit we all live. Immortality is to all." - Dave.

http://pureunadulteratedgrace.blogspot. ... onism.html

Jebus wrote:Posts are too long. Please consider abbreviating.

Jebus wrote:Thanks for abbreviating although the remaining post is not exactly to the point. Anyways, I gather the good news is that I will also get to go to heaven because Jesus "died" for me. Here are my questions?

What sacrifice did Jesus actually make? He obviously didn't "die" from the whole thing. I guess it wasn't much fun hanging on a cross with nails pinned through your body, but the whole time he always had the ability to mentally reduce the pain if needed, and he always knew that everything would be fine in the end.
Didn't Jesus (God) plan the whole death thing himself? If so, I doesn't really seem like he sacrificed anything.
What about all the people who died from the beginning of time until Jesus "sacrificed himself." Isn't it a bit unfair to them that they didn't have the same privilege of forgiveness as I/we do?

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

"For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

"But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"

"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."

omegaflare wrote:

Jebus wrote:all is forgiven, Christ died for all

Jebus wrote:

omegaflare wrote:

Jebus wrote:all is forgiven, Christ died for all

My point is that Christ didn't die. Death is not something temporary that only lasts three days. I don't see much of a personal sacrifice here.

Jebus wrote:Omega, thanks for providing links that "support" the claim that Jesus Christ was crucified. However, this is not remotely related to the questions I brought up in my previous posts.

In order to clarify my query, please allow me to describe the events immediately preceding the birth of Jesus Christ.
Jesus: Thanks God, for cloning yourself into me, a human shaped version of you.
God: No problem, son. However, there is a grand plan in which you have an integral part.
Jesus: Really, father.
God: Yes, I will send you to earth where you will be born and immediately cared for by living parents and given lots of gifts by strangers.
Jesus: Sounds great, father. Then what happens?
God: I'm not quite sure, but I don't think anyone will really notice if we skip that part and jump straight to your adulthood where you will have amazing superhero powers that will impress those who come across you. You will always be surrounded by loyal friends and you will spread joy among those less fortunate.
Jesus: Sounds awesome, father, but what's the catch?
God: You will have to suffer awful physical agony for a few hours.
Jesus: Oh no!
God: But it will only be temporary, and after that you will be revered by millions for eternity.
Jesus: Sounds great! Count me in, father. Just out of curiosity, what's the point of all this?
God: So that all sinners can forever be forgiven.
Jesus: Oh, so. Hold on. Anyone will be able to do whatever they want without any accountability?
God: Yes, I know it sounds a bit weird but just trust me on this one ok. Also, don't forget to tell everyone that you love them very much.
Jesus: I will, father. Thanks so much for this wonderful opportunity. I have a feeling that if I do this right people might even write songs and sing about me.