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Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:56 am
by Aspartame
My best friend has ASPD and hasn't been convinced by any videos I've shown him. Which made me think... Is it really always worth it to try and convince people to go vegan?

I've shown him Earthlings (although biased), Cowspiracy and Forks over Knives. He doesn't get convinced by the ethical side and doesn't care about environmental factors unless it significantly impacts his own life. Should I even try anymore to convince him or not?

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 9:40 am
by Jebus
Definitely don't give up if it doesn't take up any of your time and if he's your best friend. Otherwise, it might be better spending that time trying to convince other people. Personally I don't enjoy spending too much time around my old non vegan friends.

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:20 pm
by brimstoneSalad
Some people just don't care about anything at all unless it affects them, sometimes only if it affects them immediately (they don't care about anything years off either).
In that case, food evangelism (making delicious vegan food) and health arguments might be compelling enough to encourage a reduction in animal product consumption.

When somebody is very resistant, it's probably not worth your time if you can spend that time talking to others who are more open to the idea and care about others.

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:17 am
by AMP3083
brimstoneSalad wrote: Wed May 17, 2017 12:20 pmIn that case, food evangelism (making delicious vegan food) and health arguments might be compelling enough to encourage a reduction in animal product consumption."
I wholeheartedly agree with this, though I posit some people don't concern with their health as much, they just care about the taste of the food. I thought about this before and I think delicious vegan food (and knowing how to cook them as well) is more likely to convince me to make the transition, not the health and ethical arguments.

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:13 am
by PsYcHo
I'm going to be blunt here, despite my wanting to help you achieve your goal. (Amp makes a great point here)

Meat tastes good. I loved the taste of a steak, but I also love the taste of properly prepared Indian food.

In the society we live in, it is totally acceptable to eat meat. If you get bogged down in the argument about ethics, you will soon learn that most persons do not consider that in the least. That doesn't mean they are "bad" people, they are just going by what they have been taught all their lives.

I was a total carnivore, but I was also a curious person willing to try different things. I think if Vegans spent more time subtly introducing meals to carnivores, (those that taste good) they would have more of an impact than trying to convince someone to go total Vegan overnight. (I still eat dairy, but is it better that I eat dairy or that I eat dairy and bovine meat? The goal shouldn't be an all or none situation. The goal should be to reduce harm as much as possible, right?)

Start slow, and when you see that someone actually is considering their dietary choices, then introduce them (with warning) to forks over knives and such.

If you yell at people and show them how stupid they are, you might end up with a President who runs a reality TV show. Slow and steady wins the race..

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:24 am
by Jaywalker
PsYcHo wrote:I was a total carnivore, but I was also a curious person willing to try different things. I think if Vegans spent more time subtly introducing meals to carnivores, (those that taste good) they would have more of an impact than trying to convince someone to go total Vegan overnight. (I still eat dairy, but is it better that I eat dairy or that I eat dairy and bovine meat? The goal shouldn't be an all or none situation. The goal should be to reduce harm as much as possible, right?)
That's very good advice, I think. If the people you're talking to aren't already predisposed to care, they don't give a second thought to ethical arguments. They're more than likely thinking "get this shit over with so I can continue eating my burger!"

This is less true on online boards like this, but I've been very frustrated by people's attitudes in real life over the years.

I think this will become easier once good meat substitutes are commonplace, like Beyond Meat and the Impossible Burger. I keep to a limited diet, don't crave much else and am not very good at cooking, so it's difficult for me to prepare interesting food to suggest to carnivores. Packaged vegan products will make my job much easier. Have you tried anything like that before as a meat eater, or another mock meat? What vegan meals would you recommend to carnivores?

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:08 pm
by PsYcHo
Jaywalker wrote: Fri May 19, 2017 9:24 am Have you tried anything like that before as a meat eater, or another mock meat? What vegan meals would you recommend to carnivores?
I enjoy mock meats, but I don't think it's ideal for convincing people to change. It tries to be- "this is just like meat!" when it is definitely not. I think they are great if prepared in a way the doesn't put emphasis on the meat part. Burgers may not be ideal for an introduction, but a casserole type dish with many ingredients may be just the thing.

I personally think Indian food is excellent to introduce to carnivores. It has so much flavor that you really don't miss the meat. I would suggest if you are trying to slowly convince someone, starting Vegetarian is much easier.

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 4:31 am
by brimstoneSalad
PsYcHo wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 11:08 pm I would suggest if you are trying to slowly convince someone, starting Vegetarian is much easier.
Or, to add to this: Don't try to make it healthy at first. It can be vegan, but you might want to lay on the coconut oil (saturated fat, which gives a particular mouth feel and sense of satiation) pretty heavily. That's one of the reasons curries are such great introductions, particularly if they're coconut milk heavy.

Re: Is it always worth it to convince people?

Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:39 am
by PsYcHo
^ Great point.

One of the issues I had with starter Vegan/Veggie meals was that they were not "heavy" enough, and that is coming from a "light eater" (as in quantity, not that I actually consumed light ;) )