Philosophical Vegan Forum

I dont mean to offend anyone and apologies if that is the case as its somewhat of a crude question but im genuinely curious whether swallowing during intimate acts is technically contentious with vegan principles, my partner suggested it is and while i originally thought it to be ridiculous she presented a valid point - Sperm are complex living organisms containing half of the genetic material for creating human life and through the act of swallowing you are infact harming them & ending their intended purpose of their existence short by denaturing them through acid/enzymes internally.

By not swallowing you therefore allow them to carry out their life expectancy naturally despite not giving them the possibility of their biological intent but neither are your actions directly impacting their lifecycle from a choice you have control over....I now in fact think this is no longer a silly question and actually worth considering, so any opinions would be appreciated.

I'm pretty sure you're not causing any harm, and are likely as sentient as clams.

That's like saying that everytime someone masturbates they commit genocide since the sperm dies within a few hours.

I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Thanks for your reply a in principle i would agree with you. Obviously one must be realistic and logical in your approach otherwise life would be unmanageable if every decision you make must strictly adhere to your core principles. However i really am beginning to think this is a very good point worthy of consideration. Obviously life without masturbation is not feasible for the majority and is a natural part of life. However if you think in context of the sprems lifetime that they die naturally from masturbation after 30 minutes or so. However if you ask your partner to swallow as a matter of fantasy/desire you are making a direct decision to shorten that lifecycle by your action. By that thinking killing an animal with your own hands would be the same thing, just on a different time line as its an affect of your choice. food for thought as no doubt not thought about by many due to the nature of desire/social taboo to discuss.

Either way, the sperm will die. You swallow, it ends up in the stomach and be digested. If you spit, it'll end up on the carpet and leave a stain. Don't be so touchy with every last thing; thats like worrying about trace amounts of milk in something.

maybe, maybe not. ultimately every thing living being starts dyeing the very day its born, just have different perspectives of time. differentiating values upon various types of being is somewhat a matter of hypocrisy in my mind.

RedAppleGP wrote:
That's like saying that everytime someone masturbates they commit genocide since the sperm dies within a few hours.

I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Oh, we know why you wouldn't be too worried, you monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFCiIkDv-sM#t=48s

No you wouldnt be a monster in that instance as they would end their life effectively by old age, submitting them to death by acid bath would be genocide!

i really think this should be considered more in vegan communities as it is something antipathetic to our principles that is solely determined by our choice, unlike having vegan food delivered in a vehicle that has murdered many lifes through the nature of it operating at high speeds killing bugs etc. these things would make life unmanageable if attempted to avoid due to the ridiculous amount of unknown variables out of our control. having a fantasy that requires my partner to shorten a living beings life is independent of external factors and totally based on your choice. if thought about it like im now just doing, you're a vegan for the label rather than righteous principle. Any way thats now my new resulting opinion now im conscious on its impact

jpriority wrote:I dont mean to offend anyone and apologies if that is the case as its somewhat of a crude question but im genuinely curious whether swallowing during intimate acts is technically contentious with vegan principles, my partner suggested it is and while i originally thought it to be ridiculous she presented a valid point

Let me get this straight, you wanted your partner to swallow, and she didn't want to so instead of saying she finds the taste and texture disgusting and it makes her feel sick, she tricked you into believing it was against vegan principles to do so.
Priceless.

jpriority wrote:- Sperm are complex living organisms containing half of the genetic material for creating human life

Complexity is irrelevant, but sperm aren't that complex. As far as I know, they're actually the smallest and simplest cells in your body.
If you regard sperm as meaningful on those grounds, you must regard all of your cells as more meaningful.

Sperm are also not organisms, they are gametes. They do not grow and reproduce, they are simply reproductive cells with one solitary purpose: to carry genetic material to the egg. In this sense, they share more in common with a virus.

Every other one of your cells actually contains ALL of the genetic material needed for creating a human life.

The bottom line should be, from a vegan perspective, that while they are motile, they are not sentient. They have no moral value.

jpriority wrote:through the act of swallowing you are infact harming them & ending their intended purpose of their existence short by denaturing them through acid/enzymes internally.

Sperm do not feel pain. You are ending their purpose through swallowing them, but you're doing the same by throwing them out in a condom or shooting off into a sock.

If you want to give them a chance at fulfilling their purposes, the only option you have is to have sex with a fertile lady without birth control, and this should be the only time you ever ejaculate.
Anything else is equally deleterious to their purpose. They don't exist to enjoy leisure time, so doing it sooner or later is irrelevant. The only relevant point would be whether they had a chance at an egg or not.

So, if you really feel that sperm have moral worth, you should stop masturbating, and stop engaging in any sexual acts with your S.O. that can not lead to a child.

jpriority wrote:By not swallowing you therefore allow them to carry out their life expectancy naturally

Sperm die pretty quickly once they leave your body unless they manage to get through the cervix (or they are "frozen" at extremely low temperatures with a cryoprotectant to prevent cell damage).

But again, sperm do not enjoy leisure time. They have no purpose at all beyond fertilization. It doesn't matter if they "live" a second or a million years.
The only thing you can do relevant to their purpose is to give them a chance at an egg, or not.

jpriority wrote:despite not giving them the possibility of their biological intent but neither are your actions directly impacting their lifecycle from a choice you have control over....

You are directly impacting them by ejaculating them. You could just not do that, or only do it into fertile women without birth control.

If you really think sperm have moral worth, despite being the simplest cells in your body, non-sentient, and without purpose beyond fertilizing an egg, then you may have more to worry about than whether swallowing is appropriate.

brimstoneSalad wrote:

jpriority wrote:I dont mean to offend anyone and apologies if that is the case as its somewhat of a crude question but im genuinely curious whether swallowing during intimate acts is technically contentious with vegan principles, my partner suggested it is and while i originally thought it to be ridiculous she presented a valid point

Let me get this straight, you wanted your partner to swallow, and she didn't want to, so instead of saying she finds the taste and texture disgusting and it makes her feel sick, she tricked you into believing it was against vegan principles to do so.
Priceless.

I enjoyed a hearty chuckle as well, reading this. What I'm wondering is, was she just too shy/uncomfortable to actually say outright that she didn't want to do it, or did she actually see opportunity for a joke and take it? In case of the latter, was she surprised, or just amused when he was actually dim enough to take the joke seriously? Maybe both?

On a serious note, I hope that jpriority reads what you wrote for him and thinks about it carefully. It's worrisome enough that there are some vegans who buy into the notion that consuming any animal products is immoral, regardless of whether or not harm actually results from it. Or that killing anything alive is immoral, regardless of whether or not it's sentient. jpriority took this to a whole new level, though. I was hoping it was a joke at first, but it seems now that he was actually serious.