Philosophical Vegan Forum

HI!
since a few weeks I don't eat very healthy, I often eat too much legumes (like chickpeas, soy, lentils in one day) so I was wondering if it's dangerous to eat too much vegetal proteins?

Don't worry about eating too much of those foods unless you have kidney problems. Even if that's all you eat, you wouldn't get anywhere near the protein intake of the typical meat eater.

Eating too many legumes is unlikely and otherwise a pretty good problem to have.

As others said, vegetable protein is fine. I'm sure you can't eat too much of it in those forms unless you are diagnosed with kidney problems. Normal healthy kidneys can handle all of the protein you could possibly eat from bean sources.
The great thing about beans is that the protein comes with some fiber and antioxidants too, and they tend to be low in methionine (The closest thing to "bad protein").

Animal proteins are a bigger danger, because they are high in methionine, and don't come with any meaningful amount of fiber or antioxidants, and they come with too much other harmful material (Cholesterol, saturated fat, excessive choline).

i'm not sure, I read somewhere that too much vegetal protein can be as bad as animal protein?
but I gain a lot of pounds since I am vegan (which is strange because I never eat processed food or sugar) only fruits and legumes and grains, I think I started eating a bit too much, because I was afraid to not get enough proteins and now it's been several months that I am used of eating more than what I used to eat so I gain !!! i am trying to lose what I gain, It's the first time my life that I need to do that, so that is very strange, i always tought I could eat as much as I wanted and never gain.

And since I am vegan I have lot of diggestive issues that I used to not have, I'm not sure if it comes from legumes, but I went to a doctor and he said that I probably have those diggestive issues because I don't eat animal proteins and so this is not balanced because as I eat more fruits and vegetable, they can ferment inside intestines which can cause bloatings and pains.
Of course I am not going to eat meat again because of that issue, but I don't understand why all vegans say that being vegan get rid of diggestives problems and makes you lose weight because in my case it's the opposite?? + there is a big issue with legumes no one talks about, is that not everybody can diggest them, and to some people it can cause lot of pains, even if you soak them 3 days before... vegans should warn other people wanting to turn vegan about that issue because I think it can discourage lot of people to turn vegan when they realise that legumes are so hard to diggest...
For me it used to give me pains, now I diggest them a bit better since I use kombu when I soak them, and soak them not only 1 day but 3 days and cook them a longer time. But even if they are hard to diggest and give me bloating and pains, I love to eat them and became a bit addicted to it, (that's why I gain weight probably) because I eat more than a cup a day which is maybe too much

eloine wrote:i'm not sure, I read somewhere that too much vegetal protein can be as bad as animal protein?

Some people say that, but it's a misconception.

It's like some people say all fat is bad, but they didn't realize the difference between animal fat, and healthy fat in whole plant foods like nuts and seeds.
There are different kinds of fat, different kinds of protein, etc. The important thing is to choose the healthy ones.

eloine wrote:but I gain a lot of pounds since I am vegan (which is strange because I never eat processed food or sugar) only fruits and legumes and grains, I think I started eating a bit too much, because I was afraid to not get enough proteins and now it's been several months that I am used of eating more than what I used to eat so I gain !!!

Because fruit contains a lot of sugar, it can cause weight gain. Modern fruit is very different from wild fruit, which is not so sweet. Humans bred things like apples and bananas for a long time to increase the sugar content. Now it's just too high.

This is a wild banana:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg

Of course fruit is healthier than candy. Candy is closer to 100% sugar, modern bananas are about 93% carbs and sugar. But it's not a big difference. It's still too much sugar.

Broccoli, on the other hand, is much more balanced, it's only 70% carbohydrates, and 20% protein.
Lentils are also 70% carbohydrates, and they are 27% protein.
That's a good balance. You can't get too much protein or too much carbohydrates when eating those foods.

If you eat whole plant foods, it's virtually impossible to get too much protein. It is possible to get too many carbohydrates from whole plant foods if you choose ones that are too sweet or starchy.

eloine wrote:i am trying to lose what I gain, It's the first time my life that I need to do that, so that is very strange, i always tought I could eat as much as I wanted and never gain.

You're also getting a little older, and your metabolism is slowing down. It happens to everybody.
If you reduce the sweet foods and eat more beans and green vegetables, you will probably have no trouble losing weight.

eloine wrote:And since I am vegan I have lot of diggestive issues that I used to not have, I'm not sure if it comes from legumes, but I went to a doctor and he said that I probably have those diggestive issues because I don't eat animal proteins and so this is not balanced because as I eat more fruits and vegetable, they can ferment inside intestines which can cause bloatings and pains.

If you have gas, you may want to take probiotics, or gas reducing enzymes.
The gas is caused by the type of bacteria in your body which digest the resistant starches. Enzymes will eliminate this problem.
However, if you eat more beans for a long time, the microbes in your digestive system will adapt to it, and the gas problems will be reduced on their own most of the time. If it does not, you may want to take some probiotics, it's possible you have some bad bacteria in your body that you need to replace with good bacteria.

http://www.bean-zyme.com/Bean-zyme%20same%20as%20Beano%20info.htm
This company makes a vegan version, and it will eliminate gas.
You can probably find some brand in your country too.

eloine wrote:Of course I am not going to eat meat again because of that issue, but I don't understand why all vegans say that being vegan get rid of diggestives problems and makes you lose weight because in my case it's the opposite??

Well, too much fruit and starches will cause weight gain, unfortunately there are many "high carb" vegans who give the wrong message there.
It's better to eat more balanced food, which contains 20-30% protein. That will be more filling.

eloine wrote:+ there is a big issue with legumes no one talks about, is that not everybody can diggest them, and to some people it can cause lot of pains, even if you soak them 3 days before... vegans should warn other people wanting to turn vegan about that issue because I think it can discourage lot of people to turn vegan when they realise that legumes are so hard to diggest...

It's not that they're hard to digest, it's that after you digest them, there's something left for the bacteria to eat called "resistant starch". When the wrong bacteria eats it, it will produce gas.

There are several ways to help get rid of the gas.

1. Fix the bacteria (take some probiotics), this may help a little. You can also just wait, and most of the time the problem will resolve itself as the bacteria adapt to the new situation.
2. Take some enzyme which will break down the starch (this is pretty much 100% successful, but it's more expensive)
3. Soak then cook the beans well. The better cooked, the less gas will usually form. (I think you're already doing this)
4. Ferment the beans. There's something called tempeh, which you can make at home. It uses a fungal culture to ferment the beans, and because the fungus already ate the resistant starches, it won't cause any gas at all. Some people don't like the taste though.

eloine wrote:For me it used to give me pains, now I diggest them a bit better since I use kombu when I soak them, and soak them not only 1 day but 3 days and cook them a longer time. But even if they are hard to diggest and give me bloating and pains, I love to eat them and became a bit addicted to it, (that's why I gain weight probably) because I eat more than a cup a day which is maybe too much

Kombu probably has some enzymes in it which help digest the beans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombu

It is also a source of dietary fiber. Algae including kombu also contain entire families[16] of obscure enzymes that break down complex sugars that are normally indigestible to the human gut (thus gas-causing), including the well-studied alpha-galactosidase and beta-galactosidase.[17]

So, that seems like a clever choice. You can also just buy the enzymes directly to take with the beans. It's a lot more convenient. Then you don't need to soak them so long.
Also, if you soak the beans for just one day, then cook them, then add the kombu and soak just a little while, it may work better because the beans are softer when they are mixed with the kombu. In my opinion, though, it's more reliable to use a professional enzyme mix like bean-zyme, which will be more potent.

Two or three cups of beans a day are OK. The protein is filling, and beans contain a lot of good nutrients.
You can track your calories on Cronometer, and just keep your total to the amount you burn. That will help you lose weight.
"Calories in vs calories out"

maybe I m eating too much fat then? what is the maximum amount of fat per day?
like today for instance I am 28% fat 28% protein and 44% carbohydrate
how much fat and protein should we eat in a day? (with a moderate physical activity)

eloine wrote:maybe I m eating too much fat then? what is the maximum amount of fat per day?
like today for instance I am 28% fat 28% protein and 44% carbohydrate

30% fat is good, that is considered a low-fat diet already. You do not need to reduce your fat intake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-fat_diet

Notwithstanding the impact of fat intake in plasma levels of fats, the proportion of carbohydrates in diet also has a strong influence on plasma levels of triglycerides and cholesterol. While a gradual increase in the carbohydrate content of the diet prevents hypertriglyceridemia,[11] a sudden increase has been shown to rise plasma triglycerides.[6] In agreement to this observation, a randomized trial comparing a low-carbohydrate diet (<40 g/day) and a low-fat diet (<30% of daily energy intake from total fat [<7% saturated fat]) revealed that low-carbohydrate diet was more effective at reducing fat mass, total-HDL cholesterol ratio, and triglycerides level.[12]

The Institute of Medicine recommends limiting fat intake to 35% of total calories to help prevent obesity and to help control saturated fat intake.

You're OK on fat. Actually, you can increase it a little if you want.

Fat isn't as filling as protein, but it's an essential nutrient. I suggest you never eat less than 20% fat. 30% fat is a good value.

eloine wrote:how much fat and protein should we eat in a day? (with a moderate physical activity)

It's up to you. There's something called the Eco-atkins, which is mainly based on fat and protein. People who follow that diet can also lose weight pretty easily if they go into ketosis. Regular Atkins based on meat causes heart disease and is terrible for people, but Eco-atkins is based on vegetables and mock meats (tofu, etc.), and based on the studies done, people can be pretty healthy on that diet.
The goal of eco-atkins is to avoid saturated fat, and keep your carbohydrates between 40 grams a day and 130 grams of carbohydrates a day (or 26% of calories) at most. The rest is fat and protein, avoiding saturated fat as much as possible (use healthy fats only), and sticking to healthy plant protein.

actually I gained because I suffer from " hypoalbuminemia" based on my latest blood analysis
The doctor is telling me that this is because vegan diet is not balanced and I should eat animal protein again!!!
But I don't want...do you know what I could do against that??
I already eat a lot of vegetable protein so this is weird...maybe I should try to take vegan protein powder?
Or maybe this is because my body is not used yet to diggest legumes??? so it doesn't know how to break down the amino acids ? or maybe I don't eat enough lysine??

eloine wrote:actually I gained because I suffer from " hypoalbuminemia" based on my latest blood analysis
The doctor is telling me that this is because vegan diet is not balanced and I should eat animal protein again!!!

Your doctor doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's being lazy and irresponsible. You should change doctors if possible. Don't argue with a doctor, just fire him and tell him why, and change doctors. He's not keeping his oath if his only recommendation is an ignorant one to violate your values, instead of looking for a viable solution with you.
He would not tell a Muslim or Jew to eat pork, he shouldn't tell a vegan to eat animal protein. There is no medical reason to tell you that.

eloine wrote:I already eat a lot of vegetable protein so this is weird...maybe I should try to take vegan protein powder?
Or maybe this is because my body is not used yet to diggest legumes??? so it doesn't know how to break down the amino acids ? or maybe I don't eat enough lysine??

You might not be getting enough lysine, that's possible if you're eating a lot of grain. There are a few things that can interfere with protein absorption, one of them is fiber, another is calcium which may be neutralizing your stomach acid.
You can help by blending up protein as a smoothie or dip. Protein powder, like soy which is very easily absorbed, may also help you.
Try to reduce your fiber and reduce your calcium a little. No more than 700 mg a day of calcium (the UK RDA).

If possible, visit a registered dietitian, and make sure the dietitian will agree to help you with a vegan diet and not recommend animal products before you visit (ask by phone).

How many grams of plant protein are you eating a day, when you track your nutrition? Make sure it's at least 100 grams for now until your levels are better.

If you can't get enough protein from that, you may have another health problem. Make sure you're getting enough protein, and tell your new doctor that you're getting 100 grams a day and taking protein powder too. You don't even need to mention that you're vegan, because it's not relevant.
If you aren't getting enough from that, there's another unrelated health problem. You could have some kind of allergy, or bad digestion, low stomach acid or something. You might consider taking digestive enzymes, although I don't know if that will help.
This is something a good doctor or dietitian will be able to help figure out.