Philosophical Vegan Forum

So looking threw the google news as I usually do everyday I found a article that made me rage and then burst into laughter. An Italian conservative lawmaker wants to make it illegal for parents to have their children eat vegan. Saying any diet that is "devoid of elements essential for healthy and balanced growth" should be illegal for a parent to raise their children on. She then back-peddles saying "I have nothing against vegans or veganism as long as it is a free choice by adults. I just find it absurd that some parents are allowed to pose their will on children in an almost fanatical religious way,". Then here is where I broke into laughter; "often without proper scientific knowledge".(I do know there are people who do not look that well into veganism. However, it sounds as if she is trying to say veganism is scientifically bad.) The lawmaker's reason for this view is apparently from several cases of parents not feeding their kids correctly with veganism. I find it idiotic to ban parents from feeding their kids a vegan diet on this reason. Since about 0.6% of Italy is apparently vegan there seems to be more healthy vegan kids then unhealthy. 0.6% of Italy is 358950 compared to the several cases of children needing more nutrition. I am honestly surprised this lawmaker hasn't tried to do the same with religion.

I also found a response to this from Agustina Saenz, director of nutrition education. "Don't ban kids from eating Barilla and beans, Instead, create plant-based dietary guidelines for parents to help their kids grow strong and fight disease..."

Links:
http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/articles/vegetarians-in-italy
http://www.pcrm.org/media/news/doctors-urge-Italian-lawmaker-withdraw-bill-criminalizing-plant-based-diets
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/08/raising-your-kid-as-a-vegan-could-soon-be-a-crime-in-italy/

It is quite a ridiculous argument. One could make the exact same argument the other way around; that it is absurd that parents impose their will upon their children by having them eat meat. Parents always impose their will on children. That's what parenting is for the first couple of years. It'd be asinine to suggest a baby should have full control over their diet. Only once children are older, they can start making decisions for themselves.

I think there may be some concern based on those uneducated Vegans whose children are malnourished. (Such as the asinine ones who think human breast milk isn't Vegan. )

But just as with almost any other group, the craziest ones make the headlines. I haven't done the research, but I would make an educated guess that there are far more children malnourished due to parental neglect than uneducated Vegan dietary choices.

Perhaps instead of spending funds making it illegal, they should look into helping educate those parents instead.

PsYcHo wrote:I think there may be some concern based on those uneducated Vegans whose children are malnourished. (Such as the asinine ones who think human breast milk isn't Vegan. )

But just as with almost any other group, the craziest ones make the headlines. I haven't done the research, but I would make an educated guess that there are far more children malnourished due to parental neglect than uneducated Vegan dietary choices.

You don't have to be vegan to have your kids be malnourished though. Far more kids are malnourished because of a lack of beans and vegetables, eating just meat and starches, than because of being vegan.

^

Total agreement. I worked at a fast food restaurant when I was younger, and several families ate there EVERY day. The closest thing to a vegetable those kids saw was the ketchup on their fries. I'd say that happens far more often than a well-meaning but uneducated Vegan parent not properly supplementing their children's diet.

Some vegans may malnourish their kids, but so may meat-eaters, and there's nothing about veganism that makes it especially dangerous. Italy obviously should protect malnourished kids, but it's wrong to imply veganism is especially dangerous by targeting malnourished vegan kids specifically.

But wait, it's not even just if the kids are malnourished? That's insane.

Question: Do you guys believe this is a genuine nutritional concern, or a cultural backlash against veganism?

Also, if Italy really wants to protect children, perhaps they shouldn't be so tied together with the Catholic Church.

EquALLity wrote:Question: Do you guys believe this is a genuine nutritional concern, or a cultural backlash against veganism?

Maybe both, but definitely cultural backlash. Veganism has been imposing itself onto the mainstream for quite a while now and certain shitty activists have certainly prepped the stage for backlash.

I don't really know if nutritional concern is as big of an issue for vegan children as it is for omnivorous children. What percentage of vegan babies receive necessary breastfeeding? How have a HCLF diet imposed on them? How many eat fully raw? I don't know of any good information on the matter or know if it exists.

EquALLity wrote:Also, if Italy really wants to protect children, perhaps they shouldn't be so tied together with the Catholic Church.

Is this a pedophile joke? Because if it is, this is a good pedophile joke.

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: I don't really know if nutritional concern is as big of an issue for vegan children as it is for omnivorous children. What percentage of vegan babies receive necessary breastfeeding? How have a HCLF diet imposed on them? How many eat fully raw? I don't know of any good information on the matter or know if it exists.

Well after doing some digging around the internet I found a 2003 article about vegan vs. meat eater nutrient intake. So this is old info. The article states that while vegan diets seem to be low in three nutrients meat eaters lack in seven. Vegans "were found deficient in calcium, iodine and vitamin B12". While meat eaters were "also deficient in calcium and iodine, [where] deficient in vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium as well".

Unfortunately I could not find any numbers about how many vegan woman breast feed. Only stuff saying how bad it is for vegans to breast feed.
Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041017010055/http://www.veganmd.org/september2003.html
(I had to go back in time for this one.)

Cirion Spellbinder wrote:

EquALLity wrote:Question: Do you guys believe this is a genuine nutritional concern, or a cultural backlash against veganism?

Maybe both, but definitely cultural backlash. Veganism has been imposing itself onto the mainstream for quite a while now and certain shitty activists have certainly prepped the stage for backlash.

I don't really know if nutritional concern is as big of an issue for vegan children as it is for omnivorous children. What percentage of vegan babies receive necessary breastfeeding? How have a HCLF diet imposed on them? How many eat fully raw? I don't know of any good information on the matter or know if it exists.

EquALLity wrote:Also, if Italy really wants to protect children, perhaps they shouldn't be so tied together with the Catholic Church.

Is this a pedophile joke? Because if it is, this is a good pedophile joke.

I agree, there's a large element of cultural backlash. I don't think it's just about activists though; I think it's also that veganism goes against Italian traditions (traditional Italian cuisine). It's not surprising that it's a conservative politician in Italy who is leading this- conservatism is about cultural preservation and being against change.

It actually was a pedophile joke. Look at me, making politically incorrect jokes.

It's not really just a joke, though.

Did you know Italy is rated as significantly more corrupt than Saudi Arabia?