Self-Awareness?

[EquALLity]

Can someone explain the argument that animals don't matter because they aren't self-aware? What exactly is self-awareness, are animals self-aware, and why does it matter?

[Haterkid69]

From I know, it's knowing who/what you are, what's happening to a degree, and understanding it.
Also from what I know most animals will act the same, it's fixed (instinct), no unique reactions, etc.


Or idk

[EquALLity]

From I know, it's knowing who/what you are, what's happening to a degree, and understanding it.

What does it mean to know who you are, and understanding what's happening exactly? It seems vague and convoluted.

Also from what I know most animals will act the same, it's fixed (instinct), no unique reactions, etc.

It's fixed? Animals aren't robots, they have emotions and bonds.

[Haterkid69]

From I know, it's knowing who/what you are, what's happening to a degree, and understanding it.

What does it mean to know who you are, and understanding what's happening exactly? It seems vague and convoluted.

Also from what I know most animals will act the same, it's fixed (instinct), no unique reactions, etc.

It's fixed? Animals aren't robots, they have emotions and bonds.

They'll all act the same from what I know, like for example me and you have different ways of being, but a cow will always have a fixed way of being, no unique disputes,etc. A planet of cows will always be a planet of cows (If you know what I mean).

[Cinereous]

I've always thought of being self-aware and being able to analyze your personality/traits in comparison to others, among other things. More specifically, mentally being able to focus on yourself and your thoughts. I would say that most animals do not necessarily do this. Still, not being able to personally reflect on their personality does not necessarily mean that one does not exist.

For example, my cats are aware that they are alive, aware of their needs, and their bond with me (for example). They have wants, remember things, and so on. I would also say that they obviously have preferences. At least with my exposure to cats/dogs/horses, I would never say that all animals are programmed the same. In that case humans would also be programmed the same with the addition of self-awareness, at least this is how I interpret the instinctual point. I know that even as a 'clean slate' at birth, my brain was very much different from another person.

Humans are much more subject to their brain than what many people believe. Seeing someone change with exposure to chemical and/or hormone-altering drugs (prescription or not) is one example of how moods/feelings can be altered, even against the will of the person. This is where they are generally aware of their emotions and would be able to relate the present feeling to how they typically perceive themselves and their general disposition in the past.

[brimstoneSalad]

Can someone explain the argument that animals don't matter because they aren't self-aware? What exactly is self-awareness, are animals self-aware, and why does it matter?

It's the atheist's equivalent of the theist argument "they don't have souls". There's no scientific basis for it. The difference from humans to cows to mice to insects is one of gradation.

Self-awareness, no matter how carefully defined, and no matter where you arbitrarily draw the line of consideration, never differentiates clearly between human and non-human.

[EquALLity]

They'll all act the same from what I know, like for example me and you have different ways of being, but a cow will always have a fixed way of being, no unique disputes,etc. A planet of cows will always be a planet of cows (If you know what I mean).

Why would they all act the same? Where did you get that?

They're animals with complex feelings and social relationships, not programmed robots.
</cow3400 set move x:420 y:666 z:74.3 when @p is at x:400 y:600 z:50>

What?
Why would they all do the same thing? Have you ever had more than one of the same pet? My other dog didn't act the same as my current one.

[EquALLity]

Can someone explain the argument that animals don't matter because they aren't self-aware? What exactly is self-awareness, are animals self-aware, and why does it matter?

It's the atheist's equivalent of the theist argument "they don't have souls". There's no scientific basis for it. The difference from humans to cows to mice to insects is one of gradation.

Self-awareness, no matter how carefully defined, and no matter where you arbitrarily draw the line of consideration, never differentiates clearly between human and non-human.

How do we know animals are 'self-aware', and what exactly is the definition?
How is it different from sentience?

[brimstoneSalad]

How do we know animals are 'self-aware', and what exactly is the definition?

It has no clear definition. That's the problem with words like these.

How is it different from sentience?

Most simply defined, it's the same thing. In order to be sentient, and to learn, to have interests, you MUST be self aware on some level, with respect to how you are differentiated from your environment. If you have no primitive distinction of self and environment, you can't navigate it or comprehend experience within it and relative to it to learn.

Now, on "higher" levels, does a dog know he's a dog? Maybe, maybe not: does it matter?

Christians don't know they're animals, they think they're made of clay, filled with a magical soul ... a soul or magical ghost inside the body, which is what they think they actually are.

“You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body"

To the extent that they are wrong, Christians are not self aware and thus O.K. to kill, right?
Oh, wait. No, maybe this isn't a good argument to justify killing animals after all.

Most carnists probably wouldn't agree with the claim, "You are mistaken about the physical reality of your being, thus you have no right to live."

[viddy9]

Singer has talked about self-awareness in order to distinguish between beings who should not be killed and beings it is permissible to kill. He takes self-awareness to be an awareness of one's own existence, particularly over a time continuum, which is a prerequisite for having a preference to go on living. For some preference utilitarians, it's not wrong in itself to kill beings without the capacity for self-awareness, although it may be wrong for other reasons: the satisfaction of their other preferences may be cut short as a result of the killing.

I would agree that this is the case, but I'd also agree with others here that it's difficult to measure (the mirror test has been proposed as a possible form of measurement), and that it's not necessarily an all-or-nothing characteristic. And, if people are suggesting that if animals reared for meat don't matter because they lack self-awareness (which, again, is controversial), they're ignoring the fact that these animals are sentient.