Philosophical Vegan Forum

Recently, I decided to try changing my diet because I was feeling low energy, and brain fog. My diet basically consisted of bread and soy based meats with occasional fruits and veggies. I heard a lot about something called, "Raw Till 4" so thought I would give this a try. The first week since switching I wasn't really all that serious, and I found myself eating soy ice cream and lots of carbohydrates before Four. After about the second week, I found my cravings for processed foods and even my sacred bread were not really there. I haven't felt much desire to eat the way I have before. Now I am into my fourth week, and I am actually finding myself enjoying this new way of eating. I wouldn't say my energy is greatly improved, but I do notice I am feeling mentally sharper, and my overall mood has improved slightly without really trying. But there are also some issues I am concerned with.

I find that I am constantly going to the bathroom. it's kind of driving me crazy. I find I am having to wake up two to three times a night to pee. Also I am losing weight. I count calories all the time. Before transitioning to raw, I was consuming around 1800 calories a day, and my weight stayed static. Now I am eating around 2500 calories per day and losing weight. How is this? I have been a hardcore calorie counter for many years, so it confuses me as to why I suddenly need more. Also I would like to give up coffee if this is possible.

So I have some questions especially from the more experienced here. How can I gain more physical energy from eating raw? How can I stop having to go to the bathroom so often? How can I give up coffee and not miss it? Why am I losing weight even with an increase in calories?

I have some major advice for a Raw diet: Don't do a Raw diet.

There is not any real evidence backing up the consumption of Raw foods, and many who DO eat a ton of raw foods end up with stomach and digestive issues, including myself, who had digestive issues so bad that my food didn't digest at all, and I would see full pieces of vegetables in my stools (TMI, but VERY important).And Raw Til 4 has no basis in science whatsoever, it's nothing more than a fad diet.

Eating tons more plants is great, but my advice is to eat them cooked. You eat tons more vitamins and minerals that become more bioavalable when the vegetable is cooked, as compared to raw. And you're eating tons more calories and still losing weight because you can't digest the raw foods, and since the stomach can't use it as energy, you feel more hungry and you're basically just tossing food away.

You're going to the bathroom a lot because you drink a lot of fluids from raw vegetables and fruits. This is especially common on a high-fruit diet. The way you can reduce this, is by eating less raw foods, and especially lower your intake of fruits if it is excessive. And you can't gain much energy from eating raw, to gain energy I recommend a high protein diet, filled with COOKED beans, legumes, soy, tempeh, TVP, and the like.

A "Raw" diet is just a fad, and has many health implications as well. But if you still want to eat Raw Unnatural Vegan also made a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgCZqNMzGwg

Yes a raw food diet is nonsense. It's the vegan made-up fad diet similar to the meat eaters version which is paleo.

This group is evidence based, you can check out this thread of you do join, it covers up the issues with raw diets in some detail https://m.facebook.com/notes/vegan-body ... /?refid=18

I remember Dr Gregger also remarking on how raw food folks don't do too well because of the poor bioavailability of nutrients in uncooked foods.

Cooking is what helped us evolve BTW and this includes the starches in tubers and grains that we could now eat and the legumes for protein which would have been off limits were it not for cooking ie if we were still raw fooders like gorillas. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/scien ... .html?_r=0

Tldr: avoid raw diets which are poor in bioavailability of nutrients which mean you have to eat way too much, needlessly more expensive and also unnecessarily have to avoid some very healthy and tasty foods.

Thanks you guys for the responses! I somewhat agree. I think the RT4 thing and the raw food movement seems to have a lot of greatly exaggerated claims. It's nice to receive a different points of view. It seems i am going to have to experiment until I figure out the most optimal nutrition for me. Now if only I can give up coffee.

As others have said, raw is a bad idea.

I wouldn't eat more than a couple servings of raw food a day. Raw, I only eat fruit (mostly berries, a couple handfuls a day) and nuts (although it might be better if I roasted them, I can't be bothered), and that only makes up a small amount of my diet. Otherwise I eat a lot of beans, whole grains, and veggies (almost all cooked).

Allison-vega wrote:Recently, I decided to try changing my diet because I was feeling low energy, and brain fog.

Have you started on B-12? Those are potential symptoms of deficiency. It will take several weeks of high doses to even out your levels. If you're still feeling this way after a couple days of high doses of B-12 and it's not getting better, go to the doctor right away for injections.

Allison-vega wrote:My diet basically consisted of bread and soy based meats with occasional fruits and veggies.

If it's whole grain bread, that's pretty good. This is both healthy and more environmentally sustainable. Of course, it depends on the ratio. Use a site like cronometer to make sure your nutrition is balanced.

You need to make sure to get enough veggies. I try to aim for around a pound (half a kilo) a day, although I don't always make it. I wouldn't eat much more than that since it's more expensive and not as sustainable.
You could also try to eat more beans, which will tend to have more fiber and nutrients than processed soy meats (which I eat, but only for about half of my protein).
Veggies should be well cooked so you can digest them.

If you're losing weight on raw, its probably because they're coming out the other end without you getting much from them.

Another option is to make green smoothies, if you want to eat more raw, which can assist in digestion by grinding things up for you. Not ideal, though.

I strongly encourage you to limit your fruit intake. Fruit is fine in moderation, a couple a day, or a couple handfuls of berries, but it's bad for your teeth, terrible for the environment, and probably quite damaging to your overall health (due to promoting malnutrition) if you eat a lot of it.

Hi Brimstonesalad,

Yes. I have agreed but reluctantly to adopt a regular b12 supplementation. I am not entirely convinced I need to supplement, but I am still researching that one. In the mean time, given it's so darn cheap I figure why not? And if you say that it can increase my energy, I am definitely willing to try high doses even though I have heard our bodies dispose of excess. As per my previous diet, I was not eating very healthy. Mostly I was consuming white bread, and soy hotdogs or tofurky. Lately I am trying out the raw diet. So far I try to mix kale, spinach, spirulena, chard, and broccoli into smoothies. In fact, I feel the smoothies are definitely having a positive benefit. However as much as I love fruit, I definitely don't want to eat fruit all the time so I have started to eat more beans, and legumes this week. Also I throw in some baked potatoes for good measure. Thanks also for the suggestions.

Allison-vega wrote:And if you say that it can increase my energy, I am definitely willing to try high doses even though I have heard our bodies dispose of excess.

Most will be disposed of, but you'll absorb a little extra with high doses.

You'll want to do step #1 here: http://veganhealth.org/b12/rec

Step 1

If you have a regular source of B12, skip to Step 2. If you have not had a regular source of B12 for some time, buy a bottle of 1,000 µg (or greater) B12 tablets.

Chew 2,000 µg once a day, for 2 weeks. You can break the remaining tablets in half or quarters for Step #2. It's okay to take more than recommended. Then follow the advice under Step #2.

In rare case, someone might have an acne-like response to such large doses of vitamin B12. If that happens to you, skip to Step 2 and opt for one of the lower dose regimens.

After two weeks of 2,000 micrograms a day, your levels should be back up and your energy should increase, then you can decrease the dosage to a maintenance level of 100 micrograms a day, or 1,000 micrograms twice a week.

Allison-vega wrote:As per my previous diet, I was not eating very healthy. Mostly I was consuming white bread, and soy hotdogs or tofurky.

That sounds pretty bad. Most of your protein was coming from non-whole wheat (Tofurky is largely gluten too). Tofurkey has a little soy protein in it, which is good, but it's mostly wheat gluten (second ingredient after water, soy is the third). To be clear, there's nothing wrong a little wheat protein (if you're not celiac), but the amino acid ratio is not ideal.

I would try to use more soy and bean based proteins (tempeh is a great option), with a more limited amount of gluten (which is fine in moderation, just not as a near-exclusive protein source), and then use whole wheat bread. And don't forget the veggies.

Allison-vega wrote:Lately I am trying out the raw diet. So far I try to mix kale, spinach, spirulena, chard, and broccoli into smoothies.

Green smoothies can be good, if it's an easy way for you to get in your veggies. I would skip the spirulina, since it's very expensive and not worth the nutrients you get from it (nutrients per dollar is bad, focus on more veggies instead). You might also want to skip the spinach, because it's very high in oxalates. I would stick mainly to the brassica veggies for smoothies.

Allison-vega wrote:However as much as I love fruit, I definitely don't want to eat fruit all the time so I have started to eat more beans, and legumes this week. Also I throw in some baked potatoes for good measure. Thanks also for the suggestions.

That's good. Beans are the best thing to eat, although I hope you're cooking them (you can digest them best that way, vs. sprouting).
For potatoes, I suggest you go for sweet potatoes instead of white, for the vitamins. White potatoes aren't as healthy. Purple potatoes (with the purple flesh inside, not white inside) are also really great.