Philosophical Vegan Forum

I specifically question about cats, because I have heard a lot of Vegan arguments concerning companion animals. Domesticated dogs often die in the wild, and most other animals can live Vegan lives themselves.

Cats thrive in the wild. Everyone has seen feral cats running around, whether in a city or rural area. I watched a video by a Vegan about why she feeds her cats meat. Basically, one almost died after switching it to a Vegan diet. Also, even if one could get a cat to survive on a strictly plant diet, felines are prolific murderers. They kill for fun and food. (If your cat has ever left a dead/nearly dead animal for you, that's its way of saying " you are a horrible hunter, so I killed something for you. Continue to feed and pet me, lest I leave you on another doorstep."

I know no-one officially speaks for the entirety of the Vegan community, but is it generally accepted or frowned upon to "own" a cat?

Female cats can be fed vegan, if it's a properly formulated diet.

Here are some good recommendations:
http://www.vegancats.com/veganfaq.php

Male cats can have urinary tract problems, so generally speaking, it's hard to feed most of them vegan.

I would recommend feeding male cats partly vegan, and partly freegan meat. Insects or worms might be another option to freegan meat, which are less sentient and more sustainable than tetrapod meat.

Generally it is preferable to adopt pets from local shelters and have them neutered than it is to buy pets like a commodity from pet stores. The pet stores sources are breeder mills where animals are bred in often unacceptable conditions in cages etc and excess animals are often culled.

There are many animals in shelters that are actually in need of a forever home so it is better to adopt them than buy from pet stores. Also its better to "adopt" as a pet or family member rather than own which is something we use for commodities.

For feeding, what about rope grown oysters?

I actually recommend rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, or other herbivorous animals for vegans, as it's pretty difficult and time consuming to make sure your cat or dog is properly veganized.

garrethdsouza wrote: For feeding, what about rope grown oysters?

I've read those can cause certain nutritional deficiencies in cats, but if they're supplemented that might work.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8727583_can-ca ... sters.html

I'm having a hard time substantiating those claims, though, which seem to be about fish (in the references).

Thanks for the feedback!

I've been doing a lot of research on the topic, and have learned a lot. To answer my own question, and please correct me if I am wrong, it would largely depend on whether someone was a Deontological or Consequentialists Vegan . The former would argue against animal ownership of any kind, but the latter would accept it as long as no harm came to the animal, especially if it benefited from the arrangement, such as being adopted from a shelter. (My original question mentioned how cats thrive in the wild, but the recent snow-storms made me question what they would actually prefer)

As far as the fact that cats kill other animals, that is inconsequential because while humans can choose to not harm animals, cats act on instinct. So having a cat as a companion (rather than "owning") would be considered by Consequentialist (gotta come up with a shorthand for that word ) to be acceptable.

PsYcHo wrote:To answer my own question, and please correct me if I am wrong, it would largely depend on whether someone was a Deontological or Consequentialists Vegan . The former would argue against animal ownership of any kind, but the latter would accept it as long as no harm came to the animal, especially if it benefited from the arrangement, such as being adopted from a shelter. (My original question mentioned how cats thrive in the wild, but the recent snow-storms made me question what they would actually prefer)

Right.
A deontological vegan may have an "animal companion" though, while rejecting ownership. Sometimes there's not much of a difference, but the consistent deontologists will give the cat outside access rather than keeping the cat from running away if it chooses to.

A consequentialist would only be concerned that the cat is well off and not harmed, and doesn't mind owning the cat, since the cat doesn't know any different.

Cats can survive in the wild sometimes, but not very well (domestic cats are not very well suited). In the forest, they'll usually be hunted by other non-domestic cats (bobcats, mountain lions, etc.). In the city, they often get hit by cars, or poisoned. It's not ideal.

Fully wild animals (who are suited to their environments) live much happier wild lives than domesticated breeds probably can.

PsYcHo wrote:As far as the fact that cats kill other animals, that is inconsequential because while humans can choose to not harm animals, cats act on instinct.

A deontologist wouldn't worry about this, since it's the cat's doing. But a consequentialist might worry about it.

Adopting a cat and letting it hunt in the backyard may cause hundreds of local wild animal deaths a year (largely birds, some with threatened populations) and leave them to rot, rarely eating them. How does that compare to not adopting, and the shelter euthanizing the cat? It's a tough decision.

Consequentialists will usually keep a cat indoors. While the cat may not prefer it, it's safer for the cat, and saves local wildlife.
A deontologist would consider that imprisonment, and would release the cat even if it were murdering neighborhood children.

That last line gave me a much needed laugh after posting on another thread. I read the loooooong thread you recommended regarding the differences in consequentalist and deontologists, and it was enlightening. I am still a meat-eater, but I have taken steps to reduce my consumption for sustainability and environmental reasons. (And ethical.....the lambs...) I'm well aware that beef is not sustainable in the long run, so I have significantly reduced my consumption. I've replaced about 80% of my beef meals with fish, and while I know that's not ideal, its a start. I did eat vegan for breakfast and lunch today, (I think. I'm not sure what they used to fry the tempura veggies)

After reading a lot of the debates, I would definitely advise using consequentalist arguments to try to persuade others to join, or at least accept, Veganism in some form. The whole honey vs. vinegar argument for catching flies. (I have to say, honey is one thing I will not give up.) Thanks for the insight, and good luck to you.

PsYcHo wrote:I've replaced about 80% of my beef meals with fish, and while I know that's not ideal, its a start. I did eat vegan for breakfast and lunch today, (I think. I'm not sure what they used to fry the tempura veggies)

That's a great start! Do you like oysters? Rope grown oysters are a very sustainable food source, and probably not sentient. If you can try those, they may be a great option (also, they're lower in heavy metals than fish).

Glad to hear you're making positive changes, and thanks for the perspective on the effects for you of the consequential vs. deontological arguments.

That's a great start! Do you like oysters? Rope grown oysters are a very sustainable food source, and probably not sentient. If you can try those, they may be a great option (also, they're lower in heavy metals than fish).

Not my favorite, but they can be tasty. I try to stay open minded, so I'm also not adverse to insects. (meal-worms, ants and larvae, crickets, even spiders) I'm aware they could be considered sentient, but the environmental impact alone is vastly less harmful than common livestock, along with the health benefits as compared to traditional meat. And regarding arachnids, an argument could be made that by consuming them, hundreds of other small creatures would be spared being consumed.

I travel a lot, and gas-station cuisine is my main source of food when I am working. I first discovered Indian food in California, and that made me realize I could actively enjoy a meal with no meat. Not ready to make the change to Vegan, (and honestly I think Vegetarian is my limit), but this forum has made me consider it.