Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hello, members of the forum.

I have come across a dilemma today which I'm not sure what to do about. I imagine that at least some of you have been in similar situations.

Today is my aunt's birthday, and my mom asked me if I'd like to come along with her to visit. Since these family gatherings are celebrated with cakes (containing eggs and possibly dairy products), I of course would prefer something vegan. She made a cake with a cookie crust containing eggs, but offered to make the pudding on top in vegan form. I appreciate that she would do this for me, but I still have qualms with eating a crust that contains eggs.

She pointed out that even though the cake she made is not fully vegan, I might be making "more of an impact"* by attending the family gathering and eating part of a "somewhat vegan" cake, than I would by not coming and not eating it. She then said that I had something of an "ethical conundrum" to work out, and laughed mildly.

I replied, somewhat angrily, "or I could simply not come along at all". She was taken aback by this and insisted that I had overreacted**. She pointed out that I could simply come along for the sake of providing company (which I liked that idea). In that case I'd need to eat something during cake-time if I came (to be polite), but unless I brought something*** myself, it would need to be nonvegan.


*She didn't elaborate on this, but I think she meant that the good I could do for animals by being a positive influence on nonvegan family, would outweigh the harm I'd inflict upon egg-laying-chickens by eating a cake with eggs in it?

**Not sure yet, but I'm inclined to say that I did overreact. I didn't expect my mom, who understands my reasons for being vegan, to joke about an ethical-issue which I was unsure about. I wish I hadn't spoken in an angry tone. Perhaps I owe her an apology?

***This, I think, would have been the best solution. I should have baked something vegan, brought it along, shared it, and only eaten from that.


What would you have done in this context? If you either don't have time to bake something for a social occasion, or it's too late to do so, would you eat something with animal products in it to avoid offending the host & other guests? Should I compromise and let myself eat some cake with eggs in it? I'm not just concerned about the harm towards animals, but the message I send to others by eating something with a significant amount of animal-byproducts in it.

Also, what quantity of animals products is "significant" to you? I would not object to minuscule trace ingredients, but I would to a cake with eggs as a major ingredient. Thanks for your feedback.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:
**Not sure yet, but I'm inclined to say that I did overreact. I didn't expect my mom, who understands my reasons for being vegan, to joke about an ethical-issue which I was unsure about. I wish I hadn't spoken in an angry tone. Perhaps I owe her an apology?

You don't need to apologize, but probably explain why it upset you as it did.

The word you're looking for, and what she tried to do, is "emotional blackmail".
She doesn't care about veganism, obviously, and doesn't really care that you care -- she's just trying to manipulate you and pressure you into going and eating whatever was most convenient for her to cook: saving her ten minutes of time, and causing you emotional distress in exchange.

If she apologizes, then you could in turn apologize for becoming upset rather than communicating earlier.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote: ***This, I think, would have been the best solution. I should have baked something vegan, brought it along, shared it, and only eaten from that.

I think it would have been trivial for her to prepare a vegan crust, unless she's just a terrible cook. Coconut oil is the obvious replacement for lard or butter in a typical pie crust recipe (which is, again, very easy to make).

It was very rude to put that additional obligation on you when she's imposing this social obligation and encouraging you to come to begin with -- telling you to cook something is not acceptable.

Given the time wasted at this gathering and the effort of cooking, you'd probably be better off in terms of activism to just go on the internet and make some posts helping people who want to go vegan. It's very unlikely your family will be influenced meaningfully.
Yes, it's better than nothing (bringing a vegan baked good and talking about it), but not going at all and using that time for something else may be better still.

Certainly she felt a lot of pressure from having to cook so many things, and she may have felt limited on time, but it probably would have been easier to just make a vegan crust if she thought it important than you eat this cake/pie rather than start a fight and try to manipulate you.

Maybe find some vegan crust recipes or something. Crusts are not hard to make, it takes about ten minutes to mix the stuff and press it into an oiled pan. Perhaps she has never made a crust.

Coconut oil, sugar, wheat pastry flour, cinnamon.

Anyway, certainly the best outcome IF you went would be to bring something vegan. But you shouldn't feel obligated to go to these trivial social engagements (most people your age, vegan or not, wouldn't be thrilled by the prospect of an aunt's birthday party).

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:
What would you have done in this context? If you either don't have time to bake something for a social occasion, or it's too late to do so, would you eat something with animal products in it to avoid offending the host & other guests? Should I compromise and let myself eat some cake with eggs in it? I'm not just concerned about the harm towards animals, but the message I send to others by eating something with a significant amount of animal-byproducts in it.

I would not. I would stay home and get some work done.

Next time if your mother wants you to go, and not eating cake/pie will be awkward, then she should give you more notice to decide, or just take ten minutes to make something you'll eat.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote: Also, what quantity of animals products is "significant" to you? I would not object to minuscule trace ingredients, but I would to a cake with eggs as a major ingredient. Thanks for your feedback.

Eggs or milk would be significant. Something made in the same kitchen/pan after washing wouldn't be. "Chemical"y ingredients that may or may not be animal derived, or some kind of trace enzyme, wouldn't be.
In terms of perception, if people would reasonably know or suspect that something probably has eggs or milk in it, then don't eat it unless it doesn't and you can advertise that and share it so they can see what a vegan desert is.

Yeah, I don't think that you should apologize. She was trying to pressure you into going against your values.
But maybe, in the future, try not to get angry like that? It probably isn't really productive in that kind of situation, even though you were reasonably upset.

I don't think you should have compromised either.
Consuming crusts with eggs while identifying as vegan might cause people to accidentally give vegans food with eggs.

And, really, she couldn't be bothered to make vegan crust? I'm sure you can find easy recipes for that online.
Like this or something: http://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/201 ... pie-crust/

You could apologize, even. Its your mother. she would appreciate this.

And no, you are not forced to eat something if you do not want to...this is happening to me when i visit my father -in-law, the step father of my wife which is a greedy meat eater and he knows of my diet and is mocking me with their preparations asking multiple times, if i am sure that i do not want some meat.

This caused me great unpleasures to go further at their place, since they find ridicule in this diet :-<