Philosophical Vegan Forum

Are organic foods better for you? I had always assumed so, but I learned that it would be hard to feed the whole world on organic foods due to the low yield, hence more land is used, and on another topic I posted about honey, I got a reply from brimstoneSalad saying:

I suggest not buying organic. Organic food uses pesticide too, just larger quantities of more dangerous "natural" pesticide. Organic farming has a lower yield so is more damaging to the environment, and supports animal agriculture.

Save money and buy conventional.

Do they actually use natural pesticide, because I thought that the whole point of organic food was that it was pesticide free, and if they do use natural pesticide, how is it more dangerous? And how does it support animal agriculture? I accept that it has a lower yield and is damaging to the environment, but equally if you use pesticides it can lead to eutrophication and pollution of water sources, and some pesticides get into the food, and we don't know whether or not they are damaging over long periods of time!

It is all so confusing, and I don't know whether or not to buy organic because there are pro's and con's to both sides of the argument. What are your views? Do you buy organic? Is it worth the money? Please help me because I don't know what to do!

MWilders wrote:Are organic foods better for you?

Not that I am currently aware of.

Do they actually use natural pesticide, because I thought that the whole point of organic food was that it was pesticide free, and if they do use natural pesticide, how is it more dangerous?

I too was surprised when I learned that organic products used pesticide. It seems to be a common misconception among people. The natural pesticides they use are more dangerous because they are less effective and thus need more to be used.

And how does it support animal agriculture?

Not sure. BrimstoneSalad can elaborate for you. Maybe he is referring to the fact that organic animal agriculture is more harmful to the environment than inorganic animal agriculture?

It is all so confusing, and I don't know whether or not to buy organic because there are pro's and con's to both sides of the argument.

Pros and Cons of Organic
Pros
- Insert custom appeal to nature here
Cons
- Environmentally harmful
- Expensive
- Inefficient

Cirion Spellbinder wrote:The natural pesticides they use are more dangerous because they are less effective and thus need more to be used.

Yep.

Particularly for insecticides. Modern ones target the egg development or nervous system of insects, but have virtually no effect on mammals because we aren't made from chitin and have significantly different nervous systems. As such, they can use ultra tiny amounts of these things that just devastate pests and don't harm humans.

Organic pesticides, on the other hand, are things like nicotine or metals, and have to be used in not just toxic amounts to kill insects, fungus, etc. but also amounts large enough to be harmful to humans and other mammals because they don't effectively target insects and other pests traits specifically.

Cirion Spellbinder wrote:

And how does it support animal agriculture?

Not sure. BrimstoneSalad can elaborate for you. Maybe he is referring to the fact that organic animal agriculture is more harmful to the environment than inorganic animal agriculture?

Organic farming uses copious amounts of manure, sometimes even fish (I think), All sorts of animal byproducts, which financially support animal agriculture.
I think "biodynamic" farming even uses ritual animal sacrifices (closely related to organic).
It depends on the farm, of course. But unless it's veganic, it's supporting additional and unnecessary animal cruelty.

Conventional is your best bet.

I buy organic only if it's cheaper, or if it's the only option available. If two are the same price, I buy conventional and avoid organic.
I would never buy biodynamic.