Great comments on new #namethetrait video

[DrSinger]

I'll add that clip to the wiki. It doesn't seem like Darren is convinced by the AY's reasoning

Edit: I'm adding nightcells formulation to the wiki

[Nightcell001]

I've made a few changes here, and added the invalid generalization bit and more on contradiction.

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#In_practice.2C_and_with_the_defense_of_the_argument

Nightcell, does that look OK? (And is it fine for me to copy over some of your explanations?)

Yes it looks right. And yes it's completely fine to copy paste me, I am not the sole owner of my words.

Edit: I'm adding nightcells formulation to the wiki

Just came back from my bike ride. I was about to work on the formal part of the argument. Could you please tell me when you are done so I can take a look and complete if needed ?

Edit :

By the way, here's another clip that might be useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3oT4ui7A2I

1:42:00 -1:43:45
Do you think the #ntt argument requires modifications or improvements? & response.

The "running it through the argument" part is so informal it is hard to listen to.

Edit2:

Edit: I'm adding nightcells formulation to the wiki

Actually I just saw your entry on the formal part. It looks good thank you ! I will try to add any significant comment to this part.

[DrSinger]

Just came back from my bike ride. I was about to work on the formal part of the argument. Could you please tell me when you are done so I can take a look and complete if needed?

I'm done now, keen to see your additions to it.

edit: PV I uploaded the vid to 'Invalid Generalising'

[brimstoneSalad]

I'll add that clip to the wiki. It doesn't seem like Darren is convinced by the AY's reasoning

He's a smart guy, he's not fooled by any of this, he's just friends with Isaac and too nice to contradict him.
I like Darren, but in this case, nice isn't necessarily good since Isaac is doing something harmful.

Sometimes it's necessary to call out even friends when they're wrong.

Yes it looks right. And yes it's completely fine to copy paste me, I am not the sole owner of my words.

Thanks!
Can you guys all post here to give general permission for the Wiki?

http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3335

The "running it through the argument" part is so informal it is hard to listen to.

Did you see the section I wrote on his circular references?

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Circular_References

I'd love feedback to make sure I got that right or if there's anything I can clarify.

I just gave you editing permission in the Wiki, by the way.

[brimstoneSalad]

I also added in the recent meme, and corrected it (see the bottom).

edit: PV I uploaded the vid to 'Invalid Generalising'

Thanks.

Hope this is OK, I moved it up to Circular References (there's a lot of media there already, but it's the first in the list and it's I think a more relevant example).

For the generalizing section, maybe we can find a clip from one of the debates where he does that overtly to an opponent by converting "human" into "different species"?
I can't think of a particular debate he did that in. Maybe Roaming?

For Dissonant actions, I think there's a good example in "Vegan Gains & Ask Yourself vs. Andy Warski & Chris Warski." where they're talking about the aliens example. It's weird to see the Warskis making sense.

I think NonZeroSum has posted some transcripts we might be able to search.

...

I'll tag him in. Maybe he can help us locate some of these clips, since we're short on time.

[NonZeroSum]

I think NonZeroSum has posted some transcripts we might be able to search.

...

I'll tag him in. Maybe he can help us locate some of these clips, since we're short on time.

Yo got's to be that all special blue hyperlink to hit up my notifications

Transcripts for sourcing: http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457
Videos: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8g-aCUkn-ondVRSZVkyc3lRQnc

• FriendEd fails again (Ask Yourself)
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33343
• Talking to Vegans about Moral Psychology (FriendEd)
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33344
• A Discussion of Morality #2 "What is the 'Name The Trait' argument?" (SPECIAL GUEST: Ask Yourself)
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33347
• Debating the "I Don't Care" Mentality (Vegan Gains vs. Bearing)
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33350
• FriendEd vs. Chris Hines and the Vegan Debate Death Squad
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33407
• A Discussion of Morality - Darren McStravick, Vegan Gains & Ask Yourself
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457#p33408
• Absolutely demolishing Philosophical Vegan (Ask Yourself)
• http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3457&start=10#p33441

^Just added the roaming and Warksi transcripts. Anymore you'd like me to add just ask. And instructions for getting your own automatic transcripts and closed captions:

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Starting_a_YouTube_Channel#Transcribing

Method for Office Word:

If you go to underneath the video title and username there should be 3 options: Add to, Share and More. Click on ‘More’
It should gives you a drop down list of; Report, Transcript, Statistics and Add Translation. Click ‘Transcript’
A section will open between the video and description. Click on English (Automatic).
Then you right click and drag to highlight over the whole transcript section. Click copy.
Open a word document and paste.
Furthest right on the toolbar is a ‘Replace with’ button, click that.
In the ‘Replace’ section write ^13[0-9][0-9]:[0-9][0-9]^13
In the ‘Replace with’ section hit the space bar once.
In the bottom left click the button that says "More"
Check the box in the middle which says "use wildcards"
Then hit the button which says "Replace All"
Repeat earlier step with ^13[0-9]:[0-9][0-9]^13 in the ‘Replace’ section and click "Replace All" again.

You should end up with a block of text minus timecodes, it sounds complicated but only takes a minute once you get the hang of it. You can then find transcription errors and replace with correct spelling, add paragraphs for sections in the talk and punctuation.

It’s also a really fast and free way of getting a good transcription of any video or audio you wish just by uploading to youtube, and after you’ve taken the steps above you can turn it into closed captions again by going to video manager > edit specific video > Subtitles CC > Create new subtitles or CC > Transcribe and auto-sync > copy the text from word doc and paste into transcription window > set timings (automatically).

[Nightcell001]

Can you guys all post here to give general permission for the Wiki?

Just did.

Did you see the section I wrote on his circular references?

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Circular_References

I'd love feedback to make sure I got that right or if there's anything I can clarify.

I like that part. Though I haven't spent the adequate amount of time trying to analyze the #nameTheVerse analogy to figure out if it is a good one to choose. I agree with the fact that there are missing premises, but to render the argument somewhat "workable" I don't see how your P3,P4 do the trick.

P3 - Such a trait can not be arbitrary

Arbitrary is an ambiguous word ( can have multiple interpretations just like "random" ). It will need yet an other premise to determine what is arbitrary and what is not.

P4 - Moral value must be justified by such a trait.

If that means that a trait (or set of trait) grant moral value, then yes this premise is adequate. I don't think it is needed but it is adequate. The form of the argument I was working on was the addition of a premise that assigned the same treatment or affectation of moral value to a set a trait mappable to a specific instance. I say mappable because if you want to use the trait human, then an alien can't possibly use it if you want a change to refute it, it will have to be mapped to the alien context which would become "alien". Then roughly the argument would become :
If you accept the affectation of moral value to the trait human, then you should accept it to the trait "human" applied to a different instance which in the case of an alien would be the trait "alien". And of course you wouldn't accept this as a justification ( hopefully otherwise even plants have moral value ).

It's definitely on my list to come up with a formal argument for veganism using empathy and a slight modification of the golden rule. Unfortunately I do not have the patience of setting a social platform to advertise it.

I just gave you editing permission in the Wiki, by the way.

Appreciated I added my modifs.

I'm done now, keen to see your additions to it.

You've done a quite good job on the symbolic part. I just added an intro and a few clarification on the conclusion.

[brimstoneSalad]

"tentative", is there another word we can use?

Isaac responded to a youtuber trying to provide him with a proof that the argument is not contradictory by using propositional logic. It is not our task to validate or invalidate the treatment but instead recognize the failure of Isaac to accept the validity of the approach. Isaac answer to this tentative by saying " This is like Chinese to me, please explain in English ". This is a diversion.

Can you find the link to the video? I'd like to include some images. I couldn't find it by searching.

[Nightcell001]

"tentative", is there another word we can use?

Do you have a suggestion in mind ? I would use maybe "effort" ? My vocabulary is not the greatest, my native language is not English.

Can you find the link to the video? I'd like to include some images. I couldn't find it by searching.

Pretty tough to find. I'm gonna try to search deeper, I remember the youtuber produce this video and AY answered in a comment not doing an actual post.

Edit : Seems like the youtuber closed his channel.... I just found the response of Isaac and screenshots it :
https://ibb.co/iidscb

Yeah I commented, he needs to put his argument into english if he wants me to look at it. Most likely just an improper translation into logical notation.

[DrSinger]

Put the vids where you like. If you link me with the time it's a pretty simple matter for me to get any of the clips you want. I might have a look through some Friended vids when I get the chance.

He's a smart guy, he's not fooled by any of this, he's just friends with Isaac and too nice to contradict him.
I like Darren, but in this case, nice isn't necessarily good since Isaac is doing something harmful.

Agreed, would be interested hear his sincere thoughts on the matter, doubt he'd agree with the 'just feed it back through the argument' etc.

lol at the new meme, i like it. There's a few good ones in his chat, not quite sure who they're making fun of

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/365200849309270017/376772212289437697/f2.jpg

is this Ask Yourself?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/365200849309270017/376771301420957698/f.jpg?width=592&height=468

I take it this is supposed to be you PV.

I'll go through all the new additions to the article when I get the chance and let you know if I see anything that I think needs changes.


edit:

Isaac answer to this tentative by saying " This is like Chinese to me, please explain in English

you mean nonethical vegan?
https://imgur.com/a/q2Kwf
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3475&start=20