Philosophical Vegan Forum

When I have my own house, this will absolutely be the case. But I wouldn't expect someone to eat vegan if we went out to eat together.

ChipDipSM wrote:When I have my own house, this will absolutely be the case. But I wouldn't expect someone to eat vegan if we went out to eat together.

If I'm buying or choosing the place, it'll be a vegan restaurant, so they'd be eating vegan. Although if they're paying for their own food I can't really insist. Some people do anyway, which is really considerate.

brimstoneSalad wrote:If I'm buying or choosing the place, it'll be a vegan restaurant, so they'd be eating vegan. Although if they're paying for their own food I can't really insist. Some people do anyway, which is really considerate.

That's a good way to approach it.

This is the kind of attitude that really puts me off Gary Yourofsky.. He's very aggressive and... Kind-of an asshole.

I understand that it can be upsetting for some people to be around meat/dairy/eggs, however, I don't see this as a practical stance in the world we live in. I find it much too sensitive, to the point where it's interfering with your daily life. As far as I'm aware, every supermarket caters to non-vegans - are you also unable to browse the isles?

Those who are upset at being around those who eat meat/dairy/eggs, is actually very non-understanding. You (most likely) were also in their position at one point. Surely you can empathize with their personal rationales and ignorance of the topic? To others, it could be viewed as very egotistical to refuse to be in the presence of meat-eaters, and give the impression that you're "too good" for them... I agree very much with VA in that, you're closing the door for open discussion and not allowing others to discover more about veganism in non-hostile ways. Don't let others' impression of a typical vegan be, 'blood'-drenched protesters and screaming activists. It's not a very successful approach.

[quote="Kyron"]This is the kind of attitude that really puts me off Gary Yourofsky.. He's very aggressive and... Kind-of an asshole.

This kind of approach may turn some people off, but at least people listen to him. He makes it very clear that this is serious business and he's not messing around. I think the fact that he chooses the issue over his family just gives him more credibility.

Jebus wrote:This kind of approach may turn some people off, but at least people listen to him. He makes it very clear that this is serious business and he's not messing around. I think the fact that he chooses the issue over his family just gives him more credibility.

My distaste for Gary I'm sure would not be new to you. Did you hear about the whole thing about vegan gains use of his grandfathers death? here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bPRtTVMOfg
Does this also give him more credibility? I don't think this makes him more credible, I think people use him to pin point vegans as extremest's, and I see it as the same in the case of vegan gains.

bobo0100 wrote:My distaste for Gary I'm sure would not be new to you. Did you hear about the whole thing about vegan gains use of his grandfathers death? here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bPRtTVMOfg
Does this also give him more credibility? I don't think this makes him more credible, I think people use him to pin point vegans as extremest's, and I see it as the same in the case of vegan gains.

WTF was that? I just spent seven minutes listening to some annoying loudmouth who has no clue about consequentialism and who doesn't even know the difference between a heart attack and a stroke. The video had nothing to do with Gary Yourofsky.

Jebus wrote:This kind of approach may turn some people off, but at least people listen to him. He makes it very clear that this is serious business and he's not messing around. I think the fact that he chooses the issue over his family just gives him more credibility.

I think it turns most people off. People generally get defensive if you tell them they're a shitty person, regardless of the topic. They're more likely to become more sure of their beliefs and less likely to consider the alternative. Some people may be a lot more self-aware and able to put that defensive attitude aside, but I don't think this is the case for the majority. - Put it this way - if Gary Yourofsky was my first impression on a vegan, it might have taken me a lot longer to want to transition to a vegan diet.
I think presenting facts in a non-judgmental, non-aggressive way, much like the presenter in the "101 Reasons To Go Vegan" video, is much more effective, and allows the audience to make up their own mind, and change their ways because _they_ want to, not because some asshole is telling them to.

bobo0100 wrote:My distaste for Gary I'm sure would not be new to you. Did you hear about the whole thing about vegan gains use of his grandfathers death? here --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bPRtTVMOfg
Does this also give him more credibility? I don't think this makes him more credible, I think people use him to pin point vegans as extremest's, and I see it as the same in the case of vegan gains.

Heh, I think Vegan Gains' approach (in many of his other videos, not this one in particular.) is very similar to that of Gary Yourofsky's and I think he was very much inspired by him. Though, he is a self-proclaimed sociopath, and I'm not sure if Gary is.

Jebus wrote:WTF was that? I just spent seven minutes listening to some annoying loudmouth who has no clue about consequentialism and who doesn't even know the difference between a heart attack and a stroke. The video had nothing to do with Gary Yourofsky.

I don't think he was claiming it had anything to do with Gary directly, rather, it's someone who possesses similar, meat-eater-hating traits, and aggressive manner when trying to push veganism. It's for the most part, not very beneficial.

Kyron wrote:it's someone his possesses similar, meat-eater-hating traits, and aggressive manner when trying to push veganism. It's not very beneficial for veganism.

Anyone who writes that Gary Yourofsky is not beneficial to veganism must be out of his/her mind. Name one person who has converted more people to veganism? I admire any person who puts the vegan cause before his/her own popularity.

Jebus wrote:

Kyron wrote:it's someone his possesses similar, meat-eater-hating traits, and aggressive manner when trying to push veganism. It's not very beneficial for veganism.

Anyone who writes that Gary Yourofsky is not beneficial to veganism must be out of his/her mind. Name one person who has converted more people to veganism? I admire any person who puts the vegan cause before his/her own popularity.

I do not contest that he has contributed a lot to the vegan movement and saving animals. However, I do think that his approach to convincing others to become vegan has been a lot less successful that it would have if he'd been more empathetic (to people's ignorance) and less aggressive, and I assume, it has not beneficial to the majority of meat-eaters who have watched his videos or heard about him.