Philosophical Vegan Forum

Jebus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:18 am

miniboes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:39 amIf you're so concerned about this effect, do you oppose fake fur that looks a lot like real fur too?

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, we recently got some evidence of harm from the fake fur industry. I'm not sure how large it is compared to the benefits of reducing fur use, but it's no longer a myth we can completely disregard:

http://news.sky.com/story/real-animal-fur-sold-as-fake-on-british-high-street-10832370

We may need to move to alternatives that are more obviously synthetic. At least when it comes to potentially difficult to tell apart materials.
Unless regulation can actually step in and enforce labeling here... but that seems unlikely.

We've seen the same issue with dairy cheese being advertised as vegan cheese in restaurants in L.A.
To somebody in the know, it may be obvious that it's dairy by the look of it (daiya is not that convincing), but it's possible to be misled.

Even when consumers want to be ethical, deception can make that difficult since many sellers don't care. That is the danger to look-alike products.

I don't think the harm of accidents and occasional deception outweighs the benefits of competing in the market and reducing use of dairy or real fur, but it's something to be considered carefully.

Jebus wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:18 amThey might if it's a fur bag.

They may or they may not. I don't know the facts here.

Come on now!!! Try googling "blue, medium sized bag" and see what comes up.

Bags often have a logo on them quite possibly so that you can google or recognize later.

Asking the person where they got it would be better, but few people actually do that.

Perhaps. But how many people are going to see roadkill-fur bags and feel the need to buy a random other fur bag?

Absolutely.

At least you're consistent then. I've got to disagree though, for the reason that people are more likely to switch to vegan alternatives if the vegan alternatives are (almost) the same.

By the way, do you think the normalization effect is any different for eating soy yoghurt, for example? If I'm eating some yoghurt in public, someone could theoretically get a yoghurt craving and buy cow yoghurt because they look exactly the same. Am I wrong to eat soy yoghurt in public, in your view? If not, what makes it different?

Edit: I only saw Brimstone's reply after I wrote this, woops.

brimstoneSalad wrote:We may need to move to alternatives that are more obviously synthetic. At least when it comes to potentially difficult to tell apart materials.
Unless regulation can actually step in and enforce labeling here... but that seems unlikely.

We've seen the same issue with dairy cheese being advertised as vegan cheese in restaurants in L.A.

I don't think this is an unmanageable problem. We had a few scandals a few years back with people selling horse meat as cow meat. It may be hard to detect, but if you get caught it's a huge hit to your business, both because of the legal sanctions and the public reaction.

Pretty wierd. It might be slightly better if she didn't do this, but then there are probably 100 more important things in the world, so I don't particularly care.

Miniboes wrote:By the way, do you think the normalization effect is any different for eating soy yoghurt, for example? If I'm eating some yoghurt in public, someone could theoretically get a yoghurt craving and buy cow yoghurt because they look exactly the same. Am I wrong to eat soy yoghurt in public, in your view? If not, what makes it different?

This is a good objection, but I don't think we are dealing with the exact same situation. Freegan meat would be a better comparison. Would you be OK with someone selling large quantities of freegan meat? Maybe yes.

DarlBundren wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:45 am

Miniboes wrote:By the way, do you think the normalization effect is any different for eating soy yoghurt, for example? If I'm eating some yoghurt in public, someone could theoretically get a yoghurt craving and buy cow yoghurt because they look exactly the same. Am I wrong to eat soy yoghurt in public, in your view? If not, what makes it different?

This is a good objection, but I don't think we are dealing with the exact same situation. Freegan meat would be a better comparison. Would you be OK with someone selling large quantities of freegan meat? Maybe yes.

Well, jebus did say he opposed fake fur too, so mockmeats/soy dairy would be equivalent to that.

I should rephrase the question though, because the question here is not whether the one who consumes the soy yogurt/wears the bag is in the wrong, but whether the one who sells the yogurt/bag is in the wrong.

Edit: holy shit, TIL yoghurt is spelled yogurt in english. I should copy your signature, Darl.

Miniboes wrote: Edit: holy shit, TIL yoghurt is spelled yogurt in english. I should copy your signature, Darl.

Nah, yoghurt is used in British English. http://grammarist.com/spelling/yogurt-yoghurt/

DarlBundren wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:46 am

Miniboes wrote: Edit: holy shit, TIL yoghurt is spelled yogurt in english. I should copy your signature, Darl.

Nah, yoghurt is used in British English. http://grammarist.com/spelling/yogurt-yoghurt/

Aha, thank you. I'll stick to yoghurt then. Screw the americans.

Aha, thank you. I'll stick to yoghurt then. Screw the americans

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'American' and 'English' are capitalized though . OK, I think it's enough now.

DarlBundren wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:00 am

Aha, thank you. I'll stick to yoghurt then. Screw the americans

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'American' and 'English' are capitalized though . OK, I think it's enough now.

If you're saying "screw the..." correct grammar would be out of style.