Vegan Muscle Building Food

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by brimstoneSalad »

onlyifchased wrote:@brimstoneSalad: The dude is 6' tall, 165lbs, and wants to build muscle. Please don't tell him to eat less calories!
I didn't! Please don't take what I've said out of context. :?

I originally said:
brimstoneSalad wrote: you'll need to eat quite a bit of food to make gains unless you have some pretty lucky genetics.[...]
Nuts can be a good way to get in more calories without cooking, and you can eat them through the day.[...]
[about energy] That's calories, You need those to work out. You can input your workout into cronometer too. How many total calories are you getting?
He explicitly asked how to reduce his calorie consumption to fix the excess in cronometer, I didn't recommend it.

Again, cronometer told him it was too many, and this is AFTER he input all of his info AND his exercise.
Unfortunately, he didn't tell me how many he was getting, he was just concerned that cronometer reported it as an excess.
wilsonwjesse wrote:I had already entered in my exercise and my calories are under what it says I burn, yet energy is still red. Just curious how to fix that.
I told him how to fix that, as he asked me.

I don't think it's broken, unless he feels like he's gaining too much body fat.
onlyifchased wrote:To elaborate on (2), in order to build muscle you are almost certainly going to need to gain weight. Later, once you've gained some muscle, you can reduce your calories to lose any fat you may gain in the process,
That is ONE way to do it as a competitive bodybuilder, but not necessarily the best way for most people. Cutting is very hard, so most people will probably be better served by gaining gradually rather than going on a rigorous bulk and cut cycle. I didn't get the impression that he was aiming for a competition body, just to gain a little to look better.

He only needs a small calorie surplus.
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by onlyifchased »

Thanks for clarifying brimstoneSalad, sounds like we are mostly agreeing and I just didn't understand your comments before.
brimstoneSalad wrote: That is ONE way to do it as a competitive bodybuilder, but not necessarily the best way for most people. Cutting is very hard, so most people will probably be better served by gaining gradually rather than going on a rigorous bulk and cut cycle. I didn't get the impression that he was aiming for a competition body, just to gain a little to look better.

He only needs a small calorie surplus.
This I disagree with, however. Bulk/cut cycles are not exclusively for competitive bodybuilders, simply because it's highly improbable that anyone will be able to gain 100% muscle. Even when eating only a small calorie surplus. A completely untrained person starting to lift weights for the first time may manage it for a few months, but outside of that or a few other specific scenarios (like maybe if you have exceptional genetics for muscle building and/or a really good diet coach), it's just not a realistic thing to suggest that someone may do.

That said, I don't think he'll end up having to do a serious cut. Just at some point, reduce his calories a little back from a bulking level to a maintenance level, and keep training hard. Worst case, he may eventually want to lose a few pounds, which I think is a scenario that most normal people find themselves in at some point in their lives, not just competitive bodybuilders. ;)

If I thought he was aiming to compete in bodybuilding, I would suggest he get a coach, not ask a bunch of internet strangers what to do. :lol:
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by brimstoneSalad »

onlyifchased wrote:A completely untrained person starting to lift weights for the first time may manage it for a few months,
This is likely the situation we have here. It doesn't sound like he wants to be a body builder, just gain a little mass, already being pretty thin and not having trained. He will probably be perfectly satisfied with the gains he gets in the next three months just eating more protein and overall calories (enough to fit his exercise) and working out.

IF after a few months he starts seeing diminishing gains and he is not yet satisfied with the amount of muscle he has put on, then it might be time for some expert techniques. At this point, and for the next few months, that's overkill and probably not necessary to meet his fitness goals.

For probably most people, it's MUCH easier to not put on the fat in the first place than to put it on and try to work it off or diet it off. It's also healthier.
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Jebus
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by Jebus »

onlyifchased wrote:lift heavy on a structured proven program
"Strucured proven program" is a bit vague. Most training programs are not at all research based and I wouldn't recommend them at all. "Lift heavy" is also vague and probably not good advice. No research that I am aware of shows any hypertrophy benefits from "lifting heavy". There is however research that indicates that untrained individuals may benefit from training with 15% of their one rep maximum.
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Jebus
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by Jebus »

onlyifchased wrote: 1 scoop protein powder
1-1.5 bananas, preferably frozen
2-3 TBSP peanut butter or other nut butter
1-1.5 cups chocolate soy milk
1/4 - 1/2 avocado, preferably frozen
2 TBSP flax seeds or chia seeds
The only thing I agree with here is the flaxseed, but why limit it to 2 Tbsp. It's an inexpensive source of protein and Omega 3 so why not throw in a bunch more. 2 tbsp doesn't even come close to making up for the omega 6 from the 2-3 tbsp of peanut butter you recommended.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
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wilsonwjesse
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by wilsonwjesse »

I hope everyone had a great Saturday. I'm glad you're all taking an interest in helping me. I'm using an app that walks through daily calisthenic exercises as well as playing soccer and basketball for cardio. If after 2 months, I don't see any results, then I'll join a local gym and follow a lifting routine. I just wasn't sure if a diet that consisted mainly of beans would be healthy or allow me to put on any weight. I think by adding some other strategic foods and taking a multivitamin I'll be set.

I'm not worried about gaining excess body fat. I can just do more cardio if that ends up being a problem.

What's wrong with that shake? What ingredients would you recommend Jebus?
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Jebus wrote:
onlyifchased wrote: 1 scoop protein powder
1-1.5 bananas, preferably frozen
2-3 TBSP peanut butter or other nut butter
1-1.5 cups chocolate soy milk
1/4 - 1/2 avocado, preferably frozen
2 TBSP flax seeds or chia seeds
The only thing I agree with here is the flaxseed, but why limit it to 2 Tbsp. It's an inexpensive source of protein and Omega 3 so why not throw in a bunch more. 2 tbsp doesn't even come close to making up for the omega 6 from the 2-3 tbsp of peanut butter you recommended.
Flax gums up too much. You wouldn't be able to drink it. To improve Omega 3:6 ratio (if you're using a blender, which I think would be important for any shake containing a banana) just using walnuts instead of peanut butter would probably work, and allow you to keep the small amount of flax/chia(which also gums up if you use too much) to prevent it going gummy.

It's a misconception that protein powder is just protein. It isn't. It's more like dry powdered tofu made from defatted soybeans. Whole beans may be better, but not really viable in a smoothie.
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miniboes
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by miniboes »

brimstoneSalad wrote:It's a misconception that protein powder is just protein. It isn't. It's more like dry powdered tofu made from defatted soybeans. Whole beans may be better, but not really viable in a smoothie.
How about just throwing in tofu? It's probably quite good for the texture.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by brimstoneSalad »

miniboes wrote:
brimstoneSalad wrote:It's a misconception that protein powder is just protein. It isn't. It's more like dry powdered tofu made from defatted soybeans. Whole beans may be better, but not really viable in a smoothie.
How about just throwing in tofu? It's probably quite good for the texture.
Tofu will probably make your smoothie too thick.

Also, it's much more expensive, and it comes with the less desirable fatty acids in soybeans (which aren't terrible, but aren't great either).

Tofu also usually needs to be kept refrigerated, and can't typically be bought in bulk / will spoil.
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Re: Vegan Muscle Building Food

Post by onlyifchased »

Jebus wrote:
onlyifchased wrote:lift heavy on a structured proven program
"Strucured proven program" is a bit vague. Most training programs are not at all research based and I wouldn't recommend them at all. "Lift heavy" is also vague and probably not good advice. No research that I am aware of shows any hypertrophy benefits from "lifting heavy". There is however research that indicates that untrained individuals may benefit from training with 15% of their one rep maximum.
I mean, you will get some small benefit as an untrained individual from lifting with 15% of your 1RM, sure, but I'd like to see how long that study was for... and how they safely figured out an accurate 1RM for untrained individuals.

To define my terms, I'd say "lift heavy" means a weight that is challenging for you in the given rep range, such that when you finish your last set, you could do few more, say 2-3, but not a lot more, say twice as many. For example, if the program prescribes 3 sets of 10 reps, on the third set after completing 10 reps, you know you could kept going to complete 12 or 13 total, but probably not 18 or 20. Starting quite low and working up slowly is a good way to figure this out, and most programs will explain this. You could say 50-70% of a 1RM instead, but %1RM is a bad heuristic for new lifters, since they do not have a safe and accurate way to figure out their 1RMs, and even if they did, they are gaining strength so rapidly that this week's 1RM is likely very different than next week's.

I'd say "structured proven program" is a program that coaches or trainers have used effectively with a high number of clients from different backgrounds. The people at Renaissance Periodization create evidence-based programs like this, for example. The New Rules of Lifting and Strong Curves are examples of non-evidence based programs that are anecdotally highly effective.
brimstoneSalad wrote: This is likely the situation we have here. It doesn't sound like he wants to be a body builder, just gain a little mass, already being pretty thin and not having trained. He will probably be perfectly satisfied with the gains he gets in the next three months just eating more protein and overall calories (enough to fit his exercise) and working out.

IF after a few months he starts seeing diminishing gains and he is not yet satisfied with the amount of muscle he has put on, then it might be time for some expert techniques. At this point, and for the next few months, that's overkill and probably not necessary to meet his fitness goals.
I've just seen so many skinny people spin their wheels in the gym for months and months because they refuse to eat extra to support building muscle. It gets frustrating to see.

On the other hand, it's good vegetarian activism. "How come you've built muscle and I haven't?" "Well, see all these beans and nuts and stuff that I've been eating? Turns out that's better than calling a five piece chicken nugget dollar menu item a meal."

Related nutrition question since this thread is discussing it: I've heard it's not good to eat TOO much ALA (walnuts, flax, etc.) since it's bad for the eyes. I can't find a good source for this info though. Anyone heard of this?
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