Philosophical Vegan Forum

RedAppleGP wrote:You know what? Fuck you. Seriously, if you're just going to be like that, calling me a prick, then I'm just going to stop debating with you, since I know that this is going to be the outcome. Me either being sarcastic (while addressing my arguments), or just saying my opinion, then you being a cunt. So sit and spin. Chris was right; You are immature. If you're trying to piss me off, you're not, you're just giving me the impression that you are a cunt. You don't see me calling you names (and mean it).

It's pretty amazing how you've painted this.

Saying your opinion?
How innocent! You were just stating your opinion that my game sucked, and then when I tried to de-escalate it by joking about Donald Trump, you were snide about it. And then I tried to de-escalate it again by joking about that, and you innocently clarified that it was an insult, while adding that I'd be dishonest about it- "but if you weren't now you're going to act as if you were". How totally innocent! And then you went on about how your opinion that my game is complete shit matters (with no actual constructive criticism). No, you weren't being a dick at all!

RedAppleGP wrote:I just said the game sucks. You were the one that kinda escalated it. Seriously, we're arguing over a shitty flash game, is it really worth this discussion?

Nope.

I know I said that I wouldn't respond, but I'll rephrase it; I'll respond when it's necessary. Hopefully it never escalates to that.

EquALLity wrote:It's pretty amazing how you've painted this.

Saying your opinion?
How innocent! You were just stating your opinion that my game sucked, and then when I tried to de-escalate it by joking about Donald Trump,

Wait, that's what you were referencing?

EquALLity wrote:you were snide about it. And then I tried to de-escalate it again by joking about that, and you innocently clarified that it was an insult,

So you get offended easily, is that it?

EquALLity wrote: while adding that I'd be dishonest about it- "but if you weren't now you're going to act as if you were". How totally innocent! And then you went on about how your opinion that my game is complete shit matters (with no actual constructive criticism). No, you weren't being a dick at all!

If you wanted me to elaborate, you could've just asked. I think the game sucks due to it's simplicity. Just pressing the right arrow? Where's the challenge? If this is a test video game, you should've just kept it at that. Maybe have some friends or relatives play it so you can find areas in which to improve on, then when you have an at least 2/10 game, you can impose it upon the masses to play. It's a flash game, so usually I'm not expecting much. Plus, the areas where it attempted "humour" is just painful and cringe-worthy at best. The annoying sound effects and animations are some of the worst I've experienced in a flash game. Also, for a satirical game, it seems extremely bias, since there is no criticism or mention of the opposing sides, and their faults. It seems the creators of this game have not consulted Mr. Howard J. Ross. You could've also used more fitting backgrounds, instead of ones that you found off the internet in 2 minutes. All in all, this is a game that should have never been put on the internet. -100/10.

Anyways, whe/if I release videos to the public, you'll have every right to criticize it. I won't care.

RedAppleGP wrote:I know I said that I wouldn't respond, but I'll rephrase it; I'll respond when it's necessary. Hopefully it never escalates to that.

Hopefully it never escalates to that?

RedAppleGP wrote:So you get offended easily, is that it?

It's kind of like irritated amusement that you painted this as if you were just innocently stating an opinion.

And I know, pretty weird for me to get offended when you call me a liar and start arguments about nonsense.

RedAppleGP wrote:If you wanted me to elaborate, you could've just asked. I think the game sucks due to it's simplicity. Just pressing the right arrow? Where's the challenge? If this is a test video game, you should've just kept it at that. Maybe have some friends or relatives play it so you can find areas in which to improve on, then when you have an at least 2/10 game, you can impose it upon the masses to play. It's a flash game, so usually I'm not expecting much. Plus, the areas where it attempted "humour" is just painful and cringe-worthy at best. The annoying sound effects and animations are some of the worst I've experienced in a flash game. Also, for a satirical game, it seems extremely bias, since there is no criticism or mention of the opposing sides, and their faults. It seems the creators of this game have not consulted Mr. Howard J. Ross. You could've also used more fitting backgrounds, instead of ones that you found off the internet in 2 minutes. All in all, this is a game that should have never been put on the internet. -100/10.

Anyways, whe/if I release videos to the public, you'll have every right to criticize it. I won't care.

You're entirely missing the point; it isn't about whether or not you think the game sucked, of course you can critique it. I don't actually agree with your criticism here, but it's not relevant. I was irritated that it wasn't constructive criticism, it was just "ha ur game is stupid" (or at least that's the vibe you gave, because you didn't elaborate and went on arguing about BS), and that you explicitly called me dishonest (albeit very innocently, of course).

EquALLity wrote:It's kind of like irritated amusement that you painted this as if you were just innocently stating an opinion.

And I know, pretty weird for me to get offended when you call me a liar and start arguments about nonsense.

I was just stating an opinion, and I don't get offended, I just retort.

EquALLity wrote: You're entirely missing the point; it isn't about whether or not you think the game sucked, of course you can critique it. I don't actually agree with your criticism here, but it's not relevant. I was irritated that it wasn't constructive criticism, it was just "ha ur game is stupid" (or at least that's the vibe you gave, because you didn't elaborate and went on arguing about BS), and that you explicitly called me dishonest (albeit very innocently, of course).

You got the constructive criticism, and you're still not happy?

Guys, chill out please.

Red is right that you don't have to make games to criticize them. In fact, making games gives no insight into criticism, because a game's value is defined exclusively from the perspective of the player in terms of player experience. Having made games can even cloud the judgement of a critic (e.g. valuing less something which is easy to do, and valuing more something hard to do, regardless of how fun it is; this creates an inherent bias), just like making a movie doesn't make somebody a better movie critic (although it can make you more sympathetic to the makers of the movie, and thus less of an asshole when you criticize). It doesn't go the other way either, good movie critics can make famously bad movies *cough* valley of the dolls *cough*. Two pretty much non-overlapping skills (making and criticizing).

EquALLity is right that the criticism should have been more constructive, and it should have also been more sensitive to the fact of the game's budget (nothing) and the youth of the makers. The team that made the game wasn't a professional game studio, and the game is free. There is context to be considered in criticism, and we can realize something is good for its budget and the time and experience that went into it. If some big game studio made this with a million dollar budget, Red would be more on point to respond like this. It doesn't take making a game to have a little sensitivity to the context of the product.

Can this hatched please be buried now?

EquALLity wrote:

BeNegative wrote:I've actually designed a video game in great detail, but not actually made one yet.

What's your game about?

It was a horror game that takes elements from several different video games I like, with a few new ideas as well.

RedAppleGP wrote:I was just stating an opinion, and I don't get offended, I just retort.

Ok then, so I was just stating my opinion that you were being an irritating prick. What's the problem? It's just an opinion.

A hypocritical one too:
"Chris was right; You are immature. If you're trying to piss me off, you're not, you're just giving me the impression that you are a cunt. You don't see me calling you names (and mean it)."

"i don't understand what your problem is, you immature cunt. I'm not calling you any names, cunt."
...

RedAppleGP wrote:You got the constructive criticism, and you're still not happy?

You're still missing the point.

"You're entirely missing the point; it isn't about whether or not you think the game sucked, of course you can critique it. I don't actually agree with your criticism here, but it's not relevant. I was irritated that it wasn't constructive criticism, it was just "ha ur game is stupid" (or at least that's the vibe you gave, because you didn't elaborate and went on arguing about BS), and that you explicitly called me dishonest (albeit very innocently, of course)."

brimstoneSalad wrote:Red is right that you don't have to make games to criticize them. In fact, making games gives no insight into criticism, because a game's value is defined exclusively from the perspective of the player in terms of player experience. Having made games can even cloud the judgement of a critic (e.g. valuing less something which is easy to do, and valuing more something hard to do, regardless of how fun it is; this creates an inherent bias), just like making a movie doesn't make somebody a better movie critic (although it can make you more sympathetic to the makers of the movie, and thus less of an asshole when you criticize). It doesn't go the other way either, good movie critics can make famously bad movies *cough* valley of the dolls *cough*. Two pretty much non-overlapping skills (making and criticizing).

I don't necessarily agree with that, but this topic isn't actually what we were arguing about anyway.
That discussion pretty much ended when I said: "I don't actually think your opinion is totally irrelevant just because you haven't made a game. It'd just be more relevant if you did, because then you'd have experience with games."

So this isn't really relevant to what the argument was about.

brimstoneSalad wrote:EquALLity is right that the criticism should have been more constructive, and it should have also been more sensitive to the fact of the game's budget (nothing) and the youth of the makers. The team that made the game wasn't a professional game studio, and the game is free. There is context to be considered in criticism, and we can realize something is good for its budget and the time and experience that went into it. If some big game studio made this with a million dollar budget, Red would be more on point to respond like this. It doesn't take making a game to have a little sensitivity to the context of the product.

Thanks. And yeah, that too. This isn't supposed to be a professional game, we were just messing around with Scratch.

brimstoneSalad wrote:Can this hatched please be buried now?

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with what I said given the context.

EquALLity wrote:Ok then, so I was just stating my opinion that you were being an irritating prick. What's the problem? It's just an opinion.

It was because you escalating it; I just said the game was shit, I didn't say anything about you. You just called me a prick out of spite.

EquALLity wrote: A hypocritical one too:
"Chris was right; You are immature. If you're trying to piss me off, you're not, you're just giving me the impression that you are a cunt. You don't see me calling you names (and mean it)."

"i don't understand what your problem is, you immature cunt. I'm not calling you any names, cunt."
...

I called you names after you called me one. I meant beforehand, I'm pretty sure you can put 2 and 2 together.

EquALLity wrote:You're still missing the point.

"You're entirely missing the point; it isn't about whether or not you think the game sucked, of course you can critique it. I don't actually agree with your criticism here, but it's not relevant. I was irritated that it wasn't constructive criticism, it was just "ha ur game is stupid" (or at least that's the vibe you gave, because you didn't elaborate and went on arguing about BS), and that you explicitly called me dishonest (albeit very innocently, of course)."

So my criticism wasn't constructive?

EquALLity wrote:I don't necessarily agree with that, but this topic isn't actually what we were arguing about anyway.
That discussion pretty much ended when I said: "I don't actually think your opinion is totally irrelevant just because you haven't made a game. It'd just be more relevant if you did, because then you'd have experience with games."

So this isn't really relevant to what the argument was about.

brimstone was saying that the quality of the game is in the eyes of the beholder.

EquALLity wrote: Thanks. And yeah, that too. This isn't supposed to be a professional game, we were just messing around with Scratch.

I don't mind that you made a game, I'm just wondering why you'd put it out to the public,