Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

[brimstoneSalad]

There are nuts and seeds with better ratios, though: Walnuts, Hemp, Chia, and as you mentioned flax. I mostly eat those nuts and seeds, with more moderate intake of other.

Agree except that walnuts are slightly on the wrong side of the 4:1 ratio, and the fact that they are so high in both 3 and 6 need to be considered.

It means you'll usually want a mix. You don't want your 3 to be too high without 6, and walnuts are a good source that's pretty close to balanced.

They're also useful in a pinch when you're limited in options. They're nice because they're widely available, so people who live in areas where they can't get flax (that isn't rancid anyway), or chia or hemp for that matter, should be able to find them.

[Jebus]

But the problem is that most of the things I eat have way too much 6 compared to 3 so I need to even that out somehow. Flax seed does that but I still don't see how walnuts do.

[miniboes]

But the problem is that most of the things I eat have way too much 6 compared to 3 so I need to even that out somehow. Flax seed does that but I still don't see how walnuts do.

It does it in a lesser degree than Flax, but because walnuts have above average omega 3 contents they still bring your closer to a good balance. It's simple math. Add a 4 to a series of 1's and the average goes up, even though you aren't immediately at a 4.

[Jebus]

It does it in a lesser degree than Flax, but because walnuts have above average omega 3 contents they still bring your closer to a good balance. It's simple math. Add a 4 to a series of 1's and the average goes up, even though you aren't immediately at a 4.

That doesn't make any sense. Walnuts have a 4.3:1 6 to 3 ratio and the general recommendation is 4:1 so it doesn't bring you closer to a good balance. In fact, because walnuts are so high in both 3 and 6 the damage done is worse than most other foods with a 4.3:1 ratio.

[brimstoneSalad]

Walnuts won't get you below 4:1 if you're eating a large amount of 6 from other sources. 4:1 may be considered ideal, but 5:1, 6:1 etc. are still decent. I think the recommendation is to not go beyond 10:1 (which tends to be around where meat-eaters are), but it's not very clear at what point it becomes really bad yet, or what the effects are.

It's probably a good idea for older vegans and pregnant vegans to take DHA, but otherwise if we keep our 6 levels down that's probably the easiest and cheapest thing to do.

If you rely on Walnuts for Omega 3, you probably need to reduce other sources of Omega 6. If you don't have access to flax, eating a lot of almonds might be out of the question for example.
Of course, the biggest change is usually going to be oil: switching to canola (low erucic acid rapeseed) is one of the most significant. Also try to reduce oil during cooking, and add it after cooking to give a dish a pleasant texture without overly heating the oil. I don't like to fry with canola oil.

If you otherwise eat a pretty low fat diet, and walnuts are your main source of fat, then you'll do pretty well for the ratio. Some studies have even gone down to 1:1. It's really just not very clear yet from epidemiological studies in vegans what any of this does, so it's all precautionary at this point.

In my opinion, it's better to eat walnuts than rancid flax. If you can find fresh flax seeds and grind those up to consume, that's great though.
Walnuts are a good proper nut, though, and a nice alternative to almonds etc. for use in smoothies that won't throw your ratio too much.

[miniboes]

It does it in a lesser degree than Flax, but because walnuts have above average omega 3 contents they still bring your closer to a good balance. It's simple math. Add a 4 to a series of 1's and the average goes up, even though you aren't immediately at a 4.

That doesn't make any sense. Walnuts have a 4.3:1 6 to 3 ratio and the general recommendation is 4:1 so it doesn't bring you closer to a good balance. In fact, because walnuts are so high in both 3 and 6 the damage done is worse than most other foods with a 4.3:1 ratio.

Let's assume a diet with consisting of 10 cups of cubed avocados a day. Avocados have an omega 6 to 3 ratio of roughly 15:1. Therefore, your consumed omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of that day is roughly 15:1 (To be exact; 25,340 mg omega 6 and 1650 mg omega 3). Now let's say you add one cup of chopped walnuts. That makes your total intake of 69,907mg omega 6 and 12,273mg of omega 3. The ratio is now 5.7:1. Even though it added a ton of omega 6 (nearly tripled the amount), it multiplied the total amount of walnuts by 7.44.

You can do the math yourself, and you will find the cup of walnut will always pull the total ratio towards 4.3:1. If your ratio without the walnuts was higher than 4.3:1 it will reduce the ratio. If you were otherwise eating nothing but flax, it will increase your omega 6 ratio. However, in all likelyhood most of the food you're consuming has a higher omega 6 ratio than 4.3:1, therefore consuming walnuts will reduce it.

Unless I did the math wrong, I hope this shows you what I meant.

[Jebus]

Let's assume a diet with consisting of 10 cups of cubed avocados a day. Avocados have an omega 6 to 3 ratio of roughly 15:1. Therefore, your consumed omega 6 to omega 3 ratio of that day is roughly 15:1 (To be exact; 25,340 mg omega 6 and 1650 mg omega 3). Now let's say you add one cup of chopped walnuts. That makes your total intake of 69,907mg omega 6 and 12,273mg of omega 3. The ratio is now 5.7:1. Even though it added a ton of omega 6 (nearly tripled the amount), it multiplied the total amount of walnuts by 7.44.

You can do the math yourself, and you will find the cup of walnut will always pull the total ratio towards 4.3:1. If your ratio without the walnuts was higher than 4.3:1 it will reduce the ratio. If you were otherwise eating nothing but flax, it will increase your omega 6 ratio. However, in all likelyhood most of the food you're consuming has a higher omega 6 ratio than 4.3:1, therefore consuming walnuts will reduce it.

Unless I did the math wrong, I hope this shows you what I meant.

I understand your reasoning. However walnuts still have too much Omega 6. No matter how many of them I eat and how much off my ratio is it will never get me to the recommended 4:1 (unless my balance is lower than 4:1) and if my balance happens to be a perfect 4.0 at the time I eat the walnuts I am moving away from the perfect balance.

[brimstoneSalad]

I understand your reasoning. However walnuts still have too much Omega 6. No matter how many of them I eat and how much off my ratio is it will never get me to the recommended 4:1 (unless my balance is lower than 4:1) and if my balance happens to be a perfect 4.0 at the time I eat the walnuts I am moving away from the perfect balance.

4:1 is just a guess. There's not any strong evidence to suggest that's a perfect balance. 5:1 is still pretty good. As long as you do better than 10:1, you're doing better than most meat eaters. The problem was that vegans were getting a 15:1 ratio, which was not good and was increasing our cardiovascular risk and neutralizing some of the benefits of not eating cholesterol and eating less saturated fat.

The recommendations for vegans getting a higher ratio of Omega 3 aren't old enough yet to really analyze the fruits of those changes in terms of mortality. We'll probably start getting information in in the next decade or so.

We have studies on meat eaters, but they eat so much saturated fat and cholesterol that it's really hard to equate those results to vegans. They also get more DHA from their diets, so conversion is less important (and may be less efficient than in vegans).

I recommend Walnuts because of:
1. Availability, some people find chia, hemp, and flax hard to find
2. Low rancidity, they don't go bad as fast, and it's obvious when they're bad. With smaller seeds the spoiled ones are all mixed in and you can't pick them out. Chia Flax and Hemp probably all need to be refrigerated if stored for long, but this can also result in humidity issues and mold.
3. Good culinary usefulness. Flax and Chia aren't very good for making nut cheeses, they get too gummy. Hulled hemp is good for nut cheese, but may be significantly more expensive, in addition to the issues above.

Averaging a slightly higher ratio (maybe 5:1) isn't a big con when compared to all of those advantages that Walnuts offer.

I also recommend canola oil (rapeseed oil) for similar reasons of availability and culinary utility. It has a better ratio, at around 2:1.
I keep it refrigerated, though, and avoid cooking at high heat with it.
Of course, it is an oil, and is missing many of the other healthy properties of nuts and seeds.

[Jebus]

Flax and Hemp probably all need to be refrigerated if stored for long

I buy flax in bulk and so far I never had to refrigerate it. I live in a humid climate and have kept it 3-4 months without problems.

I also recommend canola oil (rapeseed oil)

There are lots of warnings about consuming canola oil. Is this just a bunch of bs?

[brimstoneSalad]

I buy flax in bulk and so far I never had to refrigerate it. I live in a humid climate and have kept it 3-4 months without problems.

Are you confident in your ability to discern if flax has gone rancid? I know many people don't know or can't tell.
It's very possible all of your flax was already rancid when you bought it, which is why I'm hesitant to ever buy flax.

A lot of flax I've bought in the past was rancid since purchase. I've had better luck with chia and hemp.

Surprisingly, actually a good article:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/flaxseed-expire-11185.html

Fresh flaxseed has a mild, nutty flavor, whereas rancid flaxseed is marked by bitterness and a sharp, unpleasant aftertaste. Because it’s possible to grow accustomed to the off flavor of oxidized fats, however, you also should smell flaxseed to assess its freshness. Spoiled flaxseed -- whether whole, ground or in the form of oil -- is typically described as smelling like oil paint or a box of crayons. Any flaxseed products tinged with such odors are past their prime and should be discarded

They also won't all go off at once, you'll have a mix of fresh and rancid seeds. It's very difficult to tell them apart, and virtually impossible to pick out the bad ones. This is why I advocate Walnuts over flax; there are of course bad walnuts in any bunch, but they're easy to sort out manually when you crack them open.
Of course, as I said, I've never had a problem with chia or hemp, so if those are available in your area you could try those too (although I could have been lucky, chia have a lower overall fat content which seems to protect them more). I still keep these refrigerated (as do I walnuts).

As for the flax you have: It's a good bet that it's rancid if it's been at a warm temperature for a couple months. If you smell it and it reminds you at all of oil paint or crayons, I'd personally play it safe and give it to the birds and buy fresh (and smell it and taste it carefully if you buy new). Then I'd keep it in the freezer, and take it out and grind it in small amounts as you use it.

Good flax is good... but it's hard to find good flax unless you live somewhere people eat a lot of it, know what they're buying, and the store has a fast turnover so it doesn't go rancid on the shelves.
Another option is nitrogen flushed hermetic packages of flax (like Bob's Red Mill). It's more expensive, but I've never had a problem with those. You still have to refrigerate or freeze them after opening.

There are lots of warnings about consuming canola oil. Is this just a bunch of bs?

Yes.