2 Questions About Logical Inconsistency & Morality

[FredVegrox]

Many have ethical positions they stand for, but it is not fully thought out. So they stay inconsistent with the ethical positions by saying they are against practicing animal cruelty, along with not hurting relatives, and still partaking of animal products while it becomes known what is done to animals for those to be available. It is contrary to God, that many say they believe in, with it to be understood that God as Creator cares for the life in the universe. It could not be exclusively care for us, logically. And why should not any care to have the healthiest way, which could be learned? People are stubborn for their preferences even with it possibly being shown as inconsistent with their values or their thinking. That is unfortunately too common, though it was not in my own experience, as I was changing things as I learned about things that call for change.

[FredVegrox]

People generally do have to lie to themselves, for any inconsistencies in their lives. That animals are brutally slaughtered cannot be considered while eating animal products that are in meals, if one cares at all for animals. It would be taboo to the mind, so it is thoroughly closed off. If it is brought up at that time, violent reaction with argument can be expected. Cognitive dissonance is a very real thing.

[FredVegrox]

There are those who say God meant there to be animals for being food for us. They show a lack of capacity to see the inherent contradiction to logic in that. There are millions of species. How many species are they eating from? So, automatically they don't mean all animals, many animals can't be their food. Millions of the species can't be, while less than ten, or is it even twelve, species would be used. And for what did God make animals to be sensitive, emotional, feeling beings which would flee if they were free, to be held captive in any conditions without it mattering and be brutally slaughtered on a date assigned to them from the start, with a capacity for a much longer life? God who does this is loving, who they trust?? This all directly contradicts logic. All caring from God is not limited, it can't be, and God would not provide animals that feel and are sensitive just for all that, when they would be free if they could be. There are the very few that escape when they can manage, and those will avoid being caught as far as possible. Humans need to take accountability for themselves with their own choices, I am trusting they will be held accountable. And the healthiness of eating much more variety of whole foods from plants, without need for animal products for that, is very well established, why would God mean for humans to be more subject to cancers, diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, high blood pressure, or other issues, all of these associated with standard diets which include animal products? All the facts have to be ignored by those who say animals are meant by God for us.

[FredVegrox]

Many say they have their morals, so they do not have to observe my morals or anyone else's morals. This makes morals subjective, so that morals do not really mean anything. Recognizing God would indeed make morals meaningful, there would be consistent morals to recognize not subject to individual recognition for it. Then we are accountable.

[FredVegrox]

Veganism has basis with there being logical recognition of God which it does not have so much without God, as without God anything right or wrong is subjective. With God there is adequate explanation of right that is distinct from wrong, good that is distinct from bad, without subjective argument. What we are and what we have is not from natural processes but rather intelligence, compassion, and love we have is because that exists from God who is unlimited with any of it.

[FredVegrox]

While that is powerful for seeing God's presence is essential, it is not all there is. I have sometimes used a metaphor of a box drawn on something. And within I put "everything existing", and what is outside is all non-existent. Now the question asked is, what explains what is in the box? There must then be necessary existence which is there, causing anything more there to be. Nothing is outside of the drawn box to appeal to, all there is outside of the drawn box is non-existent in the metaphor. One has to deal with what is necessary existence that explains all else existing. There must be such or there would be no drawn box of everything that exists. And the necessary existence is sufficient for all the universe. What can necessary existence be, or who? Because if it is not what can be called God, what is a better explanation of such necessary existence? The argument I heard a few times that paired particles and anti-particles come from nothing and explain the all the universe, I can dispute as it is something that has capacity to have paired particles and anti-particles produced, not nothing. Can that be sufficient for the whole universe, which is rapidly expanding? I have heard no basis for that. And it would not be unlimited, but have all sorts of interruptions. Being necessary, necessary existence does not have a beginning or an end, existing everywhere, without interruptions anywhere. Any quality of necessary existence is without limit.

[FredVegrox]

"There is no proof of God."

"What is known that is proven? Anything? There are the evidences."

"There is no evidence of God."

"There is all the universe. Where did it come from?"

"There was the Big Bang. The universe developed from that."

"Why was there the Big Bang?"

"That's not known. It is not evidence of God."

"All the parameters of universal constants are just right. Some could not be off by a tiny fraction of what they are, that life would be still possible at all anywhere in the universe then."

"This universe just works with those universal constants just that way, which we are in. There are many universes still that do not work for it, and this one with the universal constants just right that we and any life are here."

"There is evidence of more universes?"

"...Our universe working just right is the good evidence of that."

Is this more believable? Faith that there is God does not call for more credibility.

[FredVegrox]

There are as it seems no Christians on this philosophical forum site for vegans, and there is indeed some criticism of Christianity. Much of that would be fair as almost all Christians are continuing their use of things from animals and they throw criticism against vegans from their basis with what God purposes. But they are ignorant and contrary to many of the passages of the Bible which they are referring to. I could not even put in a full list of passages that would support vegan choices, but here is a list of what I found a long while ago that is together conveniently for me already. There was good reason a great many earliest Christian believers gave up either meat or any animal products, though then really only meat was there as an animal product, or for some also dairy milk. Christians today are ignorant of that using their passages to even argue against that. Historical evidence exists showing that was true though. And, I maintain that God who is compassionate, which we should depend on, is not limited. God cares for all life. Those Christians now are wrong, arguing against that.

Genesis 1:26-31
God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.

Genesis 2:18-19
Yahweh God said "It is not good that man should live alone." Out of the ground Yahweh God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.

Genesis 6:5,7-8
Then Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. So Yahweh said, "I will destroy man who I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air." But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh.

Genesis 8:20-21, 9:1-5
Then God spoke to Noah, saying, "Go out of the ark, you, your wife, your sons and their wives. Bring out with you every living thing of all flesh that is with you, that they may abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth." Then Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and offered burnt offerings. Yahweh said in his heart, "I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake because the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth. I will never again strike every living thing, as I have done." God blessed Noah and his sons, and said, "The fear of you and the dread of you will be on every animal of the earth, and on every bird of the sky. Everything that moves along the ground, and all the fish of the sea, are delivered into your hand. Every moving thing that lives will be food for you. As I gave you the green herb, I have given everything to you. But flesh with its life, that is, its blood, you shall not eat. I will surely require accounting for your life’s blood. At the hand of every animal I will require it. At the hand of man, even at the hand of every man’s brother, I will require the life of man."

Acts 15:22-29
It pleased the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They wrote this letter: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things, that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from what was strangled, and from sexual immorality. Keep yourselves from these, you will do well."

This is in agreement with what was told to Noah, and anything of what was said understood to be for others after him this applies to, there should be no blood of any kind in what is had for food.

Blood is in all creatures with which they have life. Blood might be taken from them more thoroughly with kosher ways. Cooking does not remove blood! But some blood always remains, this is scientifically known.

Romans 8:18-22
The earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope, because the creation itself will also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

God as Creator cares for God's creatures, this is shown. The hope they all have will be fulfilled, as things are restored for creation to be again according to God's will as it was.

Isaiah 11:6-9
"The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young ones shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea."

Revelation 21:3-4
"God will wipe away every tear, there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Proverbs 12:10-12
A righteous man respects the life of his animal, but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel. He who tills his land shall have plenty of bread, but he who chases fantasies is void of understanding. The wicked desires the plunder of evil men, but the root of the righteous flourishes.