Racism in Veganism - 2018 Year in Review

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NonZeroSum
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Racism in Veganism - 2018 Year in Review

Post by NonZeroSum » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:23 pm

Racism in Veganism - Philosophical Vegan Wiki

Racism in Veganism - 2018 Year in Review (video)
  • Isaac defending Cory and Tara McCarthy on race IQ
  • Isaac stating his belief that having mixed race children will likely be lower IQ
  • His promotion of Jack Green while he knew his nazi beliefs.
  • Jack’s full outing himself as classical nazi.
  • Trying to cover his tracks without public retraction and denounciation.
How Racist is "Ask Yourself" on a Scale of 1 to 10?

Against "Race Realism": my DNA & IQ debate vs Ask Yourself.

Eisel covering his attempts to shift Isaac away from his racist beliefs.

How Stupid is Vegan Gains on a Scale of 1 to 10?

Eisel on why was Vegan Gains friends with Cory and Tara who publicly specified that they want to have him kicked out of North America?
Last edited by NonZeroSum on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Red » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:29 pm

Jeez, never realized how prevalent the issue was.
Hopefully, these people won't be the first impression some have on veganism. :/
How many of thee people can get to read the wiki article?
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Post by NonZeroSum » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:05 am

There's something very wrong with Isaac's wishful reading/viewing comprehension and memory:

---
Ask Yourself wrote:The worst is the Theo vid he cites as evidence.
It just takes clips of me out of context.
Saying things like
"If only you listened to what the alt-right has to say!"
When the actual context is me saying
"If only you listened to what the alt-right has to say, you'd understnad how to form proper arguments against them instead of using strawmen."
You can watch the source video from 16:33 to see the full clip, there's no deceptive edit: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x706ztk

"Yeah so again, that’s a straw-man, they don’t believe that civilisation is white only, they believe it is high IQ only, and Eisel you would know this if you actually listened to what the alt-right has to say, now obviously this view is true in a sense, once the average IQ is low enough it would obviously be impossible for that group to have any kind of advanced civilization, like I mean a group of mentally retarded people could not maintain an advanced civilization. . . "

---
Isaac wrote:
Eisel wrote:Yes he has debated many, many people on "the Race and I.Q. question". . .
Lmao. Does anybody ever notice that Eisel literally just makes things up constantly? How could he possibly make a claim like this? Like this is literally just a false claim. When have I ever debated someone on this topic? Maybe in passing or something?
An example from reality:
On Philosophy & Neuroscience | Ask Yourself Pirate Radio #2

---
NonZeroSum wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:56 pm
Isaac wrote:
NonZeroSum wrote:3. You weren't interested in debating that smaller channnel because no clout, how you treat most interactions. . .
“You weren’t interested in debating smaller channels”: I understand your listening skills are virtually nonexistent, but this is provably false by examining my record. . .
Lol at talking about my lack of listening comprehension while literally typing out a mis-quote of what you wanted to read, "that smaller channel" was the quote, go back and try again.
---

Pièce de résistance:

Image

---
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Post by ShadowStarshine » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:44 pm

I personally can't stand AY, I think everyone knows that.

But at most at this point, from these videos and notes we can say he is a race realist. He may (Or does) think that race and IQ have a link. He has already stated that he thinks this holds no moral imperative nor called for doing anything about it. I've seen nothing of him talking about wanting other races out or different treatment.

This guilt by association stuff is nonsense. I have a lot of friends with crazy positions given that I'm on discord debate servers and I like to argue about such things. I would promote people with positions anti to mine because I like expression, I want it out there, and I want to disagree with it.

Could AY be racist beyond what is stated? Yeah, it is surely possible. But I would rather wait to see than accuse him of it. (Though, I hope it's true, because it would be hilarious to me).

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Post by Jamie in Chile » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:51 pm

Are these people, with their online presence, actually important in the vegan movement? They are not the ones quoted in the media, and they are not mentioned on other vegan forums I post on other than this one.

I personally never noticed vegan racism. One forum I post on it is the opposite - like strong support for black lives matter and no tolerance of any negative comments about black people, for instance.

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Post by NonZeroSum » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:39 am

Jamie in Chile wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:51 pm
Are these people, with their online presence, actually important in the vegan movement? They are not the ones quoted in the media, and they are not mentioned on other vegan forums I post on other than this one.

I personally never noticed vegan racism. One forum I post on it is the opposite - like strong support for black lives matter and no tolerance of any negative comments about black people, for instance.
Aye it's nuanced, most vegans are left wing, so I don't think we have to be too concerned about them becoming leaders, but the spread of racism anywhere is concerning and it's interesting to study to see in what way they latch onto veganism and try to leverage it to sell their racist beliefs.

Updated the wiki page to include how some vegans are naively latching onto racism in India: Racism in Veganism - Sangeet Som

---

Right Wing Vegans in 2018 | Ask Yourself Pirate Radio #5

Description:

I recorded how they talk honestly, not necessarily how they talk for the public record, so people know who they're watching. Secondly, they're sentiments that are an embarrassment to the average right-winger, so they're moments that should make most right-leaning people think twice.

It's a common misconception that all vegans are leftists, so, happy to archive some material not already listed on YouTube to dispell that notion if it helps people approach the issue of animal rights rationally.

That being said I do find some of the opinions expressed here abhorrent and while useful to acknowledge their existence, I seriously think anyone holding these harmful mythical beliefs should be dissociated from. They're certainly not worth the effort of building an emergency alliance that could be found with social conservatives or even hunters to push some project or policy through.
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Post by NonZeroSum » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:44 pm

OG's recently gone from advocating anarcho-capitalism to believing most likely immigration will collapse society and it will be down to people uniting in small communities with guns at the village walls for survival.

Monday Afternoon Stream (Any Topic)

Everything not in quotes is OGMizen:

#LetsHelpOGMizen

I don't want to make that you know just binary thinking kind of simplistic assumption like all the bad guys are Jews but recently seems that way. . .

I know there's lots of Jews who own lots of stuff and people find that very suspicious and I do too but that's about as much as I understand about it. . .

I'll watch some documentaries and get back to that one. . .


Deserving of abuse
Jews have been kicked out of every place they've tried to inhabit because their sick teachings and habits
Yeah it's that kind of thing of like if a hundred other people are being nasty to you if everyone else is being nasty to you is it them or is it you was the common denominator. . .


Enemy within
no archaeological evidence for Jewish flight from Egypt
Well here’s the interesting thing, putting Egypt to one side, they've been to how many countries? How many countries now? One, two, three, four, five, six, many, many, many countries and at no point did they go fuck the stupid little hat and the biting baby dicks and stuff, I'm gonna become one of these these things, like how many countries have they gone through and they're still Jews, right? Not anything else, not Americans, not Egyptians, not Romans, not Germans, Jews, right? So just interesting, interesting fact. . .
Palestinians are not treated terribly unreasonably by Israel just as much Jordan kicked them out to stir up some star problems
I don't know about that I have seen some pretty nasty stuff from Israel to Palestine but then seen some nasty stuff from Palestine to Israel so you know just I just want them to go away I just want them to go back to their countries and leave us alone you've got no use for them. . .


Jewish World Order conspiracy

Ah no that's that's a funny thing recently is every bad guy I've come across recently has been a Jew something I've been looking at Oh different political stuff recently obviously I'm always looking at political stuff they seems recently past couple weeks almost every bad guy I've come across who's doing bad stuff like I don't know what to make of that. . .


---

Full Context

Jew world order to daughter ah no that's that's a funny thing recently is every bad guy I've come across recently has been a Jew something I've been looking at Oh different political stuff recently obviously I'm always looking at political stuff they seems recently past couple weeks almost every bad guy I've come across who's doing bad stuff like I don't know what to make of that oh don't obviously is I don't want to make that you know just binary thinking kind of simplistic assumption like all the bad guys are Jews but recently seems that way it's just okay and again I still don't know anything really about the JQ I know there's some people who think the Holocaust didn't happen I know there's lots of Jews who own lots of stuff and people find that very suspicious and I do too but that's about as much as I cistern about so yeah it's all okay it's just kind of surreal every bad guy it seems I've been digging into and looking up recently turns out

I don't think hands is a do but then again I don't think it's a bad guy well he is up to something he's definitely up to something so could be a G this is where my channel just gets blackballed for even just entertaining the question right no but guys oh oh

I'll watch some documentaries and get back to that one see me with my vegan Nazi t-shirt next time who wanted me to end this right all the bad guys are dude so yeah most of right there is that 5% exception probably just secretly Dewey come say bye come round we'll give him a proper goodbye so yet symbols pictures be wary of what half of your brain is taking in say thanks for tuning in everybody yeah Disneyland with I'm quite sorted out Disney man just yet Peppa Pig world she's in on the cards um oh gee versus 23andme 23andme uses 99% to ascendency is super effective look up Alex on life's video about the kazars okay pattern recognition is Annie submit ya know that a nice amazing oh that's anti-semitic it's like legit if someone is just legitimately hating you because you're a Jew that's a nice make but just the fact you're a Jew and someone questions you about some bad thing that you did doesn't mean you just get the full bag the sani so that's how nice make you can't come criticize me I'm a Jew who the state haha isn't that kind of anti everyone else to just have one group that you can't see share about because and he's some egg and it's not a nice make right so no semitic is not just you right so the jews themself or a nice make right okay those who who are in israel who believe that Israel has a right to exist those are anti-semitic Jews by because Arabs are also Semites yeah Semite is not a race semi as Allah is a language tradition it's not a race

this idea that you can that that's all so confusing of like I'm a too but not religious and I'm an American what how how does that work like yeah it's a the people who are in America who are Jewish right and they will constantly tell you I am Jewish or not not like the rest of you mud Bloods right I'm a special even if they're not religious right there I'm Jewish I'm Jewish I'm Jewish but an American I'm an American I'm an American it's like wait wait alright which are you because you can't be both you can't be both if two is like a nation is a people you can't be both American and you unless you're talking genetically which they're not yeah an interesting point Vox they brought up as well who I must say fucking smart bloke interesting ideas finally someone who is seems to be worthy of holding the mantle of an intellectual I compared to all the other fucking idiots that's easily anyway he pointed out he losted to say I know I'm not I'm I'm Jewish but I I'm American first and foremost right I work for America I don't work for anyone else I have no conflict of interest, they say that they say I'm American I'm American but it's like the Jews lived in Egypt for like four hundred years and they didn't come out Egyptian right oh I'm English but I'm a Jew oh I'm American but I'm a Jew well you're in Egypt for like four hundred years and you didn't become addiction right sister I do that they're just gonna just become American and forget the to stuff it's like no no you have split loyalties I mean it's Sicily it's just very clear that like the bad ones very split loyalties anyway

America paying for his rails wall and all this chest it's just nonsense we're not stupid people aren't that stupid and again I've done very little digging in this but it's like it's getting to a point where I can't avoid finding it now it's like I've always just kind of be like I don't want to get in the juice stuff no that's gross don't want to get in it

Holocaust stuff now and I still just no opinion on the Holocaust so I don't want to don't want to get into that

why don't you want to get into it because you go to jail because it's illegal because you get is the one group you can't criticize right but no so I don't want to get into that other things you know we would like to maintain my credibility for other other causes but I'm getting to a point where you can't not see it now so yeah they

Jews have been kicked out of every place they've tried to inhabit because their sick teachings and habits

Yeah it's that kind of thing of like if a hundred other people are being nasty to you if everyone else is being nasty to you is it them or is it you was the common denominator

anyway guys that's not let's not spiral Outland no since Jews come over all the all the topics to spiral on

no archaeological evidence for Jewish flight from Egypt

what do you mean did you mean all the Jews are still in Egypt between the twos never went to Egypt to me that one they were never there

Well here’s the interesting thing, putting Egypt to one side, they've been to how many countries? How many countries now? One, two, three, four, five, six, many, many, many countries and at no point did they go fuck the stupid little hat and the biting baby dicks and stuff, I'm gonna become one of these these things, like how many countries have they gone through and they're still Jews, right? Not anything else, not Americans, not Egyptians, not Romans, not Germans, Jews, right? So just interesting, interesting fact.

Palestinians are not treated terribly unreasonably by Israel just as much Jordan kicked them out to stir up some star problems I don't know about that I have seen some pretty nasty stuff from Israel to Palestine but then seen some nasty stuff from Palestine to Israel so you know just I just want them to go away I just want them to go back to their countries and leave us alone you've got no use for them so anyway I don't know how we got onto that that's gonna be it for this stream folks or maybe on again later you know yeah into enjoyed chatting to you hope it was of some interest the night wasn't the most exciting stream there's always something to talk about so yeah that's it for this stream thanks for tuning in links down below share link up above like button and such yeah that's it for me folks we'll see you in another video goodbye
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:00 am

WTF OGMizen?

It's so disturbing to see people get sucked into this stuff.

As an aside: odd also that you always see them getting into this conspiracy stuff, while at the same time these people are usually IQ realists.
You never see them say "Jews are rich, oh they have genetically higher IQ that explains it, moving on..."
Shouldn't the "Jewish Question" have been asked and answered by their other beliefs without all of this evil conspiracy nonsense? It's like IQ is only important and explanatory when it tests lower than their own. How racist convenient.

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Post by NonZeroSum » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:48 am

Added Earthling Carl and OG to the wiki:

Racism in Veganism


Feedback:

Near

What is it with vegans turining into evangelical right wing Christians lately

Theo

no idea, death rattle of the alt-right?

who else you observed..?

Near

I know of a few people who have done it over the past year

Theo

yea its a weird one

Jack

I have somewhat of an idea as to why it keeps happening.

If we can admit that veganism does attract people who are looking for a system of beliefs to adopt, (these are the people who give veganism the reputation of being cult like) then it’s easy to see why someone who dives headfirst into veganism without much consideration would also do the same for another ideology like Christianity

---

ᛏᚨᛒᛖᚨ

is there a context?

leonkootstra

ogmizen is going through some rough times and said some things trying to process that, and now they want to hold it against him and ostracize him so they can feel better about themselves

ᛏᚨᛒᛖᚨ

is it like 'oh boi he said black people like chicken he's a RaCiSt"

leonkootstra

to be fair he did say some outragious things, but he either doesn't actually mean it or has good reasons for it

ᛏᚨᛒᛖᚨ

any primary sources?

Hope

whats the point anyway Theo?

Racism can also be positive just like negative the wiki is like some moron wrote it

racism is in it self not bad or good

i know that black people are better at sports that makes me racist

leonkootstra

simply recognizing there are different races is already racist honestly :sweat_smile:

but at least we can all recognize formula 1 to be the superior race

Hope

racism in itself means differenciating between different races that is what creates races in the animal kingdom

that a bird thats black doesnt want to frick a bird thats white because they dislike the look

---

leonkootstra

so ogmizen was true about you baiting him when you asked him about homophobic statements...

i mean seriously, what do you hope to achieve by promoting this crap? fuel the anti vegan agenda by giving them ammo?

hitler promoted meat eating, especially by their soldiers in the camps to help with dehumanizing the prisoners

look, ogmizen is a bit confused and needs to be shown the way, but he's not some evil guy and definitely shouldn't be ostracized by people

Theo

@leonkootstra (1) No, I always wanted to find a way to address shit with him, which he knew was the main reason I joined his server. I waited for months, then thought you bringing up evolution was a good time.

(2) A detailed article like that proves the opposite, more vegans are left wing than right, so us doing the detailed critique of ourselves to encourage us to do better takes the wind out of any anti-vegan hit piece.

(3) Hitler thing is interesting, if you have any more info and/or a link, will include it in the wiki article.

(4) I agree. I hope more people reach out to him as a result. And we took his section down before, happy to do so again once he pulls back from the brink.

leonkootstra

1 fair enough i guess, but since the article is written in bad faith i can't imagine him reacting to you doing any good

2 the only thing that article proves is that there are people trying to police and shame people that don't align with their political views, being right wing or even being a nationalist does not make someone a bad person. not to mention, IT'S NOT DETAILED, YOU NEED A LOT MORE SOURCES TO APPLY FOR THAT STATUS.

although i don't agree with nationalism i do agree that immigration needs a lot of work before considering people not wanting that simply bigots

although i'm center left i really hate idiots just demonizing others from the right instead of properly addressing their concerns and why they have them.

3 eternal treblinka talked about it when describing the conditions german soldiers were in while in those camps, i have no exact page number to show since i lent my copy out, but since the whole book is interesting i highly recommend reading it

4 the article is on him is a hit piece, not a piece on someone who lost his way and needs some guidance

overall i really don't get an impression that this is actually meant to do any good, just to shame and distance yourself from the people you don't agree with

also, "It's unclear whether homophobia helped smooth his way into becoming a jewish hating christian fundimentalist, but it's a strong feature now"

is simply wrong, and i'm not just talking about that typo (how hard is it to do spellcheck?)

he is not an actual homophobe, he only started ranting about it after the gay pride left the beach polluted and full of waste, although there is some personal crap factoring in it too i can garantee you he doesn't actually hate gays

Theo

1) I asked politely a serious and important question, he over-reacted in a hostile manner like many times before and then shut down communication.

2) Sorry you feel that way, was mine and Brim's best attempt at exploring all aspects to how veganism interplays with different cultures. Some sections are just markers or cliff-notes to be filled in later, but none of it was written in bad faith. You're welcome to sign up and make improvements yourself and by coming to a consensus through discussion on the forum.

3) Thanks, much appreciated.

4) Every time he's come on video the last few months he's been obsessed with talking about gay sex and how gay people are the embodiment of sin compared to normal straight couples. The same way Jewish people are vilified as opposite to pure Christians.

If you're trying to downplay that by saying there's no hatred yet, the same way someone takes on board racist talking points before they become hateful, I don't think that's okay.

leonkootstra

like i said, in a lot of ways he's lost his way and needs someone to rant about, it is not to be taken seriously and when confronted he has said he doesn't actually stand behind that. for instance he has clarified that he meant all non-reproductive sex with sodomy and has nothing against gays a while ago.

and again, the way you go about it is highly counterproductive.

as for the jews, i can't say i'm a fan of them considering to what they're doing to the palestinians.

comparing israel to the nazi government is actually pretty valid, they might not have camps, but they do have ghettos that are eerily similar.

i admit pretty much everything else is either conspiracy theory or jokes that got out of hand

Theo

I explicitly offered him that option as less bad justification but still bad, he explicitly rejected it, he now thinks just accepting who you are (being prideful) if you're gay is sinful.

OG: Sodomy is a sin, pride is a sin, gay pride is definitely a sin right, pride is the worst sin of all the sins and that gay pride, right well I mean once you really understand what Christianity is aiming at you see just how perfectly antithetical to Christianity all of this sort of stuff is.


Theo: I thought you'd appreciate the honesty of not pussy footing around, just curious from your stream. You said you think sodomy is a sin, so is your position that gay people having a relationship is fine just not the sex i.e. "hate the sin, love the sinner."? And why if so do you think that theology makes sense is all? Don't need to answer.

OG:

1. Its not that I think sodomy is a sin, it is a sin. According to the bible, not me.

2. No that is not my position

3. That would not be an application of 'hate the sin, love the sinner', and even if it was, Im not sure thats even a legit christian idea

its certainly not biblical as far as I know


Re: "as for the jews, I can't say I'm a fan of them." That's dumb and racist, you wouldn't accept it if it was "as for the whites I can't say I'm a fan of them for what they did to the jews." There are more leftwing Jews internationally against the Israeli government than right wing, it's been one shit historical circumstance after another that has lead to the radicalization of that region, starting with colonial Britain and France's failure, then Hitler's attempted extermination, etc.

Refuseniks – Kilnaboy

leonkootstra

although i admit i shouldn't compare jews directly for the actions of the israeli government, most jews do stand behind it and will call you an anti semite for criticizing it.

although that mostly stems from a pavlovian response to bullshit criticism, the fact is that due to enabling bad behavior the government is allowed to do the most insane shit imaginable. if you look at the criticisms of israel from the west you'll notice it's only jews that are allowed to do that without being labeled anti semitic, and lots of times not even that. bernie sanders is labeled as anti semitic for criticizing israel, and he's a jew.

i would also appreciate it if you didn't make this into a left wing/right wing issue. what is good and what is bad is separate from that

Theo

It is primarily a right wing issue, the far-right love to both use racism and pretend to be victims of it just like the great replacement conspiracy:

The Intercept - Benjamin Netanyahu Is Fine With Anti-Semites — as Long as They Support Israel

And I'm going to need a study showing most Jewish people support Israeli oppression of Palestinians.

But regardless it wouldn't make a difference if you could point to a few religious or historic cultural ideas you don't like which are always in flux, it's never a reason to say you don't like a whole race or group of races. And OG is doing that by buying into a bunch of conspiracies, he's seeing a few business people in different industries you can identify as Ashkanazi Jewish and pinning all the things he doesn't like against them believing they're this majority responsible for colluding against him.

leonkootstra

and you honestly think the left is innocent?

do you not think that the left is so guilt ridden by the holocaust that any criticism is considered anti semitic by them?

i admit i don't have a study, but you know just as well as i do that criticism of israel is almost always met with accusations of anti semitism.

can you honestly not see there's more than just left/right wing shit going on?

as for religious ideas, from the start they consider themselves 'god's chosen people', you can't see any similarities to what the nazis thought there?

netanyahu has expressed those ideas regarding the topic on how to treat non jews too, and a lot of the government is very jewish orthodox aka believing in that shit too.

and yeah, as long as there are real anti semites netanyahu can weaponize it, one of the ways is by making people fearful instead of actually listening to criticism

something the left has been more than willing to provide

as for og, like i said he has lost his way a bit, but he's not serious about it and is still finding his way, the crap you're pulling will only make people more set in their ways though

really, you should learn some real world psychology, learn how people actually think, why they think it and how they react to criticism

Theo

Re: "you honestly think the left is innocent?" "any criticism is considered anti semitic by them?"

No and no, the BDS movement mainly leftwing students, electronic intifada - leftwing media, the young turks - leftwing pro-palestinian, palestinian solidarity networks - leftwing, solidarity almonds to support palestinians - leftwing, palestinian animal league - leftwing charity, etc. etc.

Support for Palestine is almost interely from the far-left to the centre, with a small exception of reactionaires and neo-nazis.

OG is getting worse and worse, at some point it's useful to put up a warning signal. People had a go at me for simply quoting JackGreen, look where he is now, full on neo-nazi who defends sending parcel bombs to leftist public figures and puts out the same propaganda that mass shooters used as justification for their atrocities.

leonkootstra

again, do you honestly think your actions are not making it worse?

Theo

No, he's showed all the signs for months of slipping from ancap ideology to fascism, himself and the people around him haven't been able to stop that, so it's worth risking a little bit of shaming to get him conscious of the road he's on and more people involved in talking to him.

leonkootstra

do you honestly think shaming does that?

are you that devoid of reason?

do you think punching nazis is a good thing or something?

seriously, you should stop with your hero fantasies and grow up

Theo

@leonkootstra nowhere did I say shaming was a positive force in the world, I said it's worth risking a little bit of shaming i.e. it's worth risking that he will feel some shame or that some people will shame him, if simply quoting him helps get more people involved in talking to him. I don't think it's good that once someone goes off the rails we start to tiptoe really lightly around them, that method was tried for months, it hasn't worked, so now it's anyone from the public's chance who cares and wasn't previously aware.

---
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Jebus
Master of the Forum
Posts: 2026
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:08 pm
Religion: None (Atheist)
Diet: Vegan

Post by Jebus » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:35 pm

@NonZeroSum I had never heard of OG before you mentioned him. I watched a couple of clips and he seems like a complete idiot. I'm just curious why you find him time worthy.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.

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