Red wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:37 pm
You contrasted it in the sense that one is more progressive than the other, so I responded with that contrast in mind.
When did I say that?
He himself may have not described himself that way (I never said he did, just being called such), but people would describe him as a liberal (again, the not insane ones).
Maybe, but the point that I was making wasn't that most Americans didn't define "liberal" and "left" interchangeably. The point I was making was that since any Americans who would be considered left on European spectrum would either not define themselves as liberal or actively reject the term, it shows that even in the United States, it is only really people who would be on the centre of a European spectrum who should be considered "liberal".
His politics may be libertarian motivated (not necessarily a bad thing), but his policies such as UBI, Universal Healthcare, Gay Rights, human centered capitalism are all considered to be liberal policies.
Right, and they'd still be considered liberal policies in Europe. They would not, however, be considered "left-wing". Most major European parties (even the conservative ones) support universal healthcare and gay rights. UBI is generally finds support from the left, but there are still some prominent centrists and conservatives who support it. "Human centred capitalism" is fairly similar to a social market economy, which in Europe is generally considered centrist.
But he's not anti capitalist either, and he's still on the left. By the definition of Americans, he's just more liberal than most liberals (some would lump him as a socialist with Sanders).
Yes, but most Americans who have views similar to his are still unlikely to describe themselves as liberal, if they don't actively reject the term. I think the confusion comes from the fact that people with social democratic viewpoints have only surfaced as a mainstream group recently, and since the people who have considered themselves "liberal" were seen on the left of an American spectrum, and social democrats were on the left, people just started calling social democrats "liberals".
What would you consider 'especially left wing?' Democratic socialism?
On a European spectrum, social democracy and anything further left.
How are you defining progressivism?
Advocacy of social change. As I've already said, I consider liberalism to be a form of progressivism, as it is advocating for social change, albeit on a limited scale.
I wouldn't take any information about left-wing politics from PragerU seriously.
My point in linking these videos is that they indicate that people aren't calling themselves "progressive" in order to distance themselves from "SJWs", as if that were the case, Dave Rubin and other "anti-SJWs" would be calling themselves "progressive" rather than "liberal".
But as for that second video, I'm not sure how that helps your point (it actually seems to support my point more).
Not necessarily. As I said, the term 'Progressive' is a term used to distance oneself from SJWs who are considered 'Liberal'. They have different connotations in that respect, since people are wrong conflating liberalism and SJWism, so there has to be some other term to use. Since Progressive is synonymous with Liberal, that's why it's used.
Given the fact that the people who would willingly call themselves "liberal" in the United States are generally on the centre of a European spectrum, and given the fact that there isn't any evidence for people calling themselves "progressive" rather than "liberal" in order to distance themselves from "SJWs" (and that the people who we can confirm do want to distance themselves from "SJWs" tend to refer to themselves as "liberal" anyway), I think it far more likely that people in the United States who hold politics that would be considered left-wing by European standards aren't referring to themselves as "liberal" due to the fact that the term isn't accurate for them.
Look I'm not saying that one definition is right, I'm just saying that this is how Americans would refer to certain politics.
Some Americans may refer to certain viewpoints in that way, but it doesn't change the fact that the people who hold these viewpoints won't refer to themselves as "liberal".