We are agreeing. You think that a mother has some obligation with respect the child she has conceived, which is a totally defensible position, and that those obligations outweigh her right of body autonomy. I must say that I should not have written the previous message because I did not see that you have said "To me", I thought you were saying that the two situations were objectively indifferentiable, that's what I was objecting to.PsYcHo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:00 pmBefore I respond, I want to make it clear in case of rape I don't feel this way, but if we aren't talking about rape......esquizofrenico wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:24 pmThis is clearly not true, the first and the second case can be differentiated in that for the first case you can say that the mother is not trying to kill the baby but to exert her right of body autonomy, that unfortunately leads to the dead of a baby;
The mother made the choice to have unprotected sex. (Or maybe the condom broke, my next point will still apply)
I'm a realist. Sex is fun and feels good, and sometimes the guy who says he "won't go inside you" lies, or the condom breaks, or your timing is off for the rhythm method, whatever.
Plan B pills exist, so that's an option.
So are, birth control, proper use of condoms, properly using the pull out method, diaphragms, spermicide, IUD, or twenty other options https://www.birthcontrol.com/
If you can't be bothered to use any of those methods, and still get pregnant, maybe I'd feel understanding if you have your abortion in the first month or two. Still don't have to like it, because ADOPTION exists, but I'd get it. (I'm an adoptee, btw )
But if you go past that, and still want to use the excuse of body autonomy, you're ignoring the autonomy of the body living inside of you because of your choices.
Take responsibility for your actions, give the damn child away. I'll never understand how persons who won't kill a damn fish think it's okay to kill a damn tadpole that grows into a human.....
The point is that in the second case you presented even if the mother has no obligations with respect that child, she cannot morally murder him, because that cannot be seen in any way as an application of body autonomy. She could abandon him, which in most cases would be almost equivalent to killing him, but once the baby is out of your body stabbing him is no different than stabbing the doctor.