7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Vegan message board for support on vegan related issues and questions.
Topics include philosophy, activism, effective altruism, plant-based nutrition, and diet advice/discussion whether high carb, low carb (eco atkins/vegan keto) or anything in between.
Meat eater vs. Vegan debate welcome, but please keep it within debate topics.
inator
Full Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:50 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by inator »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:54 am I think that's a common misconception. Cats are left alone because people think they don't need as much attention, but then they suffer from boredom and depression, less noticed only because people communicate more poorly with cats and because those states may be misinterpreted as a cat's normal behavior.
That's probably true, and I'm sure the same thing applies for dogs in some cases. Especially because some just keep a dog outside and rarely give it any attention. I just mean that, while giving them as much attention as they want, it seems to me that cats are on average less hyperactive.

Or maybe the fact that they are generally smaller makes it easier for me to deal with their activities, I don't know.
A cat may open my closet and take out all my clothes to play in them, but it's pretty unlikely that it will also chew on them and destroy them. Or if it runs around the house, it probably won't knock over everything in its way. If it's chasing and trying to catch me, I'm not as concerned that it may sever one of my arteries. Ok, that last one was exaggerated. But still.
Last edited by inator on Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
inator
Full Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:50 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by inator »

NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:11 am The idea that she went against their preference to go outside and kill for enjoyment, and there is no happy perfect state you can attain, whereas with dogs you can ware them out on long walks and they enjoy your company, sleep the rest of the day.
I'm not sure dogs in appartments are in a happy perfect state, even if they go on walks.

NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:11 am [...]but we know that domestic cats aren't going anywhere for the significant future, so there will be plenty to rescue.
True, but there are also more dogs than will ever be rescued. It doesn't really matter if we rescue only dogs, only cats, or 50/50 dogs and cats, as long as the same number of animals is being adopted.

My concern is rather that giving people who are "a cat person" the information that having a cat while vegan is not very appropriate or kind of hard, that might not make them adopt a dog instead, but nothing at all. I'd rather concentrate on giving information about how to take care of cats properly, and maaaybe add a caveat at the end that dogs may be easier to care for - for those wo have a problem with getting some meat for the cat, and because of toxoplasmosis issues.
User avatar
NonZeroSum
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by NonZeroSum »

inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:08 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:11 am The idea that she went against their preference to go outside and kill for enjoyment, and there is no happy perfect state you can attain, whereas with dogs you can ware them out on long walks and they enjoy your company, sleep the rest of the day.
I'm not sure dogs in appartments are in a happy perfect state, even if they go on walks.
I don't think by any means the average dog gets the required walking, but I think there is a big difference between dogs and cats, for dogs they look up to you to know what they're doing, they like walks for 'going out on the hunt' and like spending time in their roost for resting in your company, obviously the larger the backyard they can walk in and out of freely the better but I think any dog psychologist will tell you as long as you're fulfilling their need for walks, food and play, and you are maintaining your dominance in the hierarchy so they aren't stressed thinking they need to do all the protecting, you've got a pretty happy content dog.

Saying all that I have always felt that pull from my dog to do more, the whole reason I got into cycle touring, from mountain biking with my dogs, and then taking them to live with me on land projects working outdoors where they can run and explore all day. I think that pull to want to be able do the best for cats and knowing you can't really fulfill that totally if you want to be ethical can be upsetting when you see them over-eating or lethargic.

Domestic cats are basically an invasive species that are glutenous for enjoying the hunt more than the food, which means often torturing their prey and giving you half-dead animals as presents. Wildcats are quick killers, consume all their food and have a working niche that is threatened by domestic cats.
inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:08 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:11 am [...]but we know that domestic cats aren't going anywhere for the significant future, so there will be plenty to rescue.
True, but there are also more dogs than will ever be rescued. It doesn't really matter if we rescue only dogs, only cats, or 50/50 dogs and cats, as long as the same number of animals is being adopted.

My concern is rather that giving people who are "a cat person" the information that having a cat while vegan is not very appropriate or kind of hard, that might not make them adopt a dog instead, but nothing at all. I'd rather concentrate on giving information about how to take care of cats properly, and maaaybe add a caveat at the end that dogs may be easier to care for - for those wo have a problem with getting some meat for the cat, and because of toxoplasmosis issues.
I really hope it's not *ever*, but yea that actually was my inference, 'not just dogs but cats too,' that we should get excited about any industrious owners adopting animals because they're setting a good example about neutering and caring, tipping the balance of overpopulation and suffering. Totes agree about the worry that less animals will be adopted, that's the whole reason I spent 5 pages debating this point aha:
Me wrote:
Brim wrote:
Me wrote:As it stands I only see her putting obstacles in the way of individuals who would only get a cat but might not after watching this video,
She mentioned ways to avoid the problems, if they actually watched the video. If they came away with the message that they personally shouldn't get a cat and try to overcome those obstacles, I'm not sure what you expect of the video. The disclaimers were ridiculously long.
To frame those obstacles in proportion to how cats are currently being treated all over the world, not to hide behind the current state of disorganized rescue efforts in order to justify forgetting about cats and letting them go to slaughter.
Me wrote:
Brim wrote:
Me wrote:Because if you make looking after cats look like a problem for vegans, the end result will be more cats spending longer periods in shelters to being killed.
Perhaps, and perhaps it's also happening to fewer dogs (not for everybody, but on average for normal people who like cats and dogs if they give them a try).
If that’s an acceptable risk to you okay but I don't think that makes for good vegan advocacy.
I think they justify it because they think a strong message will push people towards dogs, and as a hard consequentialist, even if a lot more cats were killed and only a few more dogs adopted it would be all good. I think that's naive and the narrative was all wrong. Any adoption has to be commended and supported for reducing the strain on overpopulation, and celebrating industrious ownership.
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10273
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by brimstoneSalad »

inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 am I just mean that, while giving them as much attention as they want, it seems to me that cats are on average less hyperactive.
Cats can be pretty hyperactive in the middle of the night, and I've found them more likely to wake me up while sleeping.

Overall though, that may be, but as NonZeroSum said, I think that's an argument FOR dogs, which makes humans healthier and gets them out to do things (ideally).
I would also add that dogs seem more capable of managing their hyper and down-time and expressing them at more socially appropriate times and places. Cats do not seem to have mastered that, or don't care.
inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 am Or maybe the fact that they are generally smaller makes it easier for me to deal with their activities, I don't know.
Getting a dog on the smaller side (just not a really tiny one) can be a viable option. They also tire out much more quickly on walks.
inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 am A cat may open my closet and take out all my clothes to play in them, but it's pretty unlikely that it will also chew on them and destroy them.
Maybe, but it's easy enough to keep things away from a dog. And a cat is more likely to spray and urinate everywhere. Cats are not really potty trained like dogs are, they just naturally prefer the litter box... usually. If they're in the mood to pee somewhere else, they will. A dog is doing it because he or she knows it's the right place to go, and going on the carpet is bad.
It's true that dogs are more destructive when they're not getting enough stimulation whereas cats tend toward overeating and lethargy. If a dog is stimulated enough and has toys, chewing on things is less likely.
inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 am Or if it runs around the house, it probably won't knock over everything in its way.
Cats are more likely to jump up on tables and counters, even on top of your fridge, and knock things over and make a mess. Unlike a dog they might not eat your food, but they will lick it. With a dog it's much easier to keep things out of the way.

I would say, also, that appropriately trained and well behaved dogs are very careful not to knock things over. I don't think I've ever seen a cat that cared how many things he or she knocked over, and they don't grow out of it like dogs do. You can safely have a lot more nice things with a dog than with a cat.
inator wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:58 am If it's chasing and trying to catch me, I'm not as concerned that it may sever one of my arteries. Ok, that last one was exaggerated. But still.
That's true: a bad dog is much scarier than a bad cat.
But a good cat is much scarier than a good dog; with a cat, even a relatively well behaved one, he or she still might turn around and bite you randomly if you pet ever so slightly wrong, or just when the planets are aligned as such. Dogs seem to have better impulse control, and once socialized are less likely to bite.
inator
Full Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:50 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by inator »

NonZeroSum wrote: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:28 amSaying all that I have always felt that pull from my dog to do more, the whole reason I got into cycle touring, from mountain biking with my dogs, and then taking them to live with me on land projects working outdoors where they can run and explore all day. I think that pull to want to be able do the best for cats and knowing you can't really fulfill that totally if you want to be ethical can be upsetting when you see them over-eating or lethargic.

That's true, it's definitely sad to not at least have the possibility to do more for your pet. It's really cool that you do all that with your dogs, unfortunately it's not very common as far as I know.
brimstoneSalad wrote:Getting a dog on the smaller side (just not a really tiny one) can be a viable option. They also tire out much more quickly on walks.

Yeah that's something to think about. Dpending on what options there are around local shelters.
User avatar
Jebus
Master of the Forum
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:08 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: 7 Reasons Why Cats are Terrible Pets (UV video)

Post by Jebus »

inator wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:56 amEven if I end up having to dumpster dive a few times a month to feed the cat some meat, that'd still be less time-consuming than having to take the dog out twice a day for a significant amount of time.
This time doesn't have to be wasted. I have so many dogs that I'm unable to take them all out at the same time. In the morning I take the older and handicapped dogs to a quiet place where I sit down for an hour to study the language I want to learn.

In the late afternoon I take the fit dogs out for a run or other exercise.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
Post Reply