Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

Post by brimstoneSalad »

ThunderKiss65 wrote:Flaxseeds last the longest stored in a dry area.
Yes dry, but also cold.

Cold and wet is potentially worse than warm and dry. Unless it's frozen and wet.
ThunderKiss65 wrote:Stores don't keep dry flaxseeds refrigerated and neither should flaxseed consumers.
There are several reasons for this.

1. It's more expensive (when flax seeds are packaged, they're usually nitrogen flushed which helps; it's not affordable to transport and store them cold).
2. Customers are constantly opening and closing bulk bins (letting in humidity which causes moisture problems)
3. The turnover for places like a whole foods selling in bulk is pretty fast, so they just aren't sitting in a room temperature oxygenated environment long enough to go significantly rancid.

As long as they're dry, cold is better than warm. Particularly if we're talking about the warm and humid of a tropical region.
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miniboes
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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ThunderKiss65 wrote:Flaxseeds last the longest stored in a dry area. Stores don't keep dry flaxseeds refrigerated and neither should flaxseed consumers.
How stores store the food is just not a good pointer for how you should store your food. The reasons Brimstone mentioned apply to many foods. Refrigeration is expensive. Another good example is strawberries; they are often not refrigerated in stores, but stay good much longer when refrigerated.
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miniboes
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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Not sure where to post this, since it is also related to the Rogan topic, but Mic did a video on vegan omega 3, rebutting (an insanely stupid) paleo advocate on the Rogan experience. (Saying one reason to eat fish over flax is that it has other nutrients too... What the hell?)

https://youtu.be/XMA5ij-bsKc
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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miniboes wrote:
How stores store the food is just not a good pointer for how you should store your food. The reasons Brimstone mentioned apply to many foods. Refrigeration is expensive. Another good example is strawberries; they are often not refrigerated in stores, but stay good much longer when refrigerated.

Dried food shouldn't be refrigerated that is all I am saying, common sense. Flaxseeds will spoil in the fridge (because exposure to tempature changes) while hemp seeds and chia should be refrigerated after opening. The reason flax spoils so quickly is because of how nutritious flax seeds are. If you alter the flaxseeds in anyway you will have to consume them with in hours to avoid eating oxidative or spoiled seeds. Keep flax seeds dry and at room temp until you use them. After you use the flaxseeds consume them immediately.

**edit**
Stores put strawberries in their walkin coolers as well as all the produce! Strawberries, unlike most fruits have the seeds on the outside which means once the strawberries are picked they start to go rancid, quickly! Have you ever bought organic strawberries and didn't eat them fast enough only to realize after a day or two they are moldy and spoiled? Conventional strawberries have a fungicide sprayed on them after picking to reduce this spoilage. Conventional frozen strawberries do not contain this fungicide.
Last edited by ThunderKiss65 on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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miniboes wrote:Not sure where to post this, since it is also related to the Rogan topic, but Mic did a video on vegan omega 3, rebutting (an insanely stupid) paleo advocate on the Rogan experience. (Saying one reason to eat fish over flax is that it has other nutrients too... What the hell?)

https://youtu.be/XMA5ij-bsKc
I haven't watched that one yet I thought for sure he was a "the fat you eat is that you wear" supporter..
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miniboes
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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ThunderKiss65 wrote:
miniboes wrote:Not sure where to post this, since it is also related to the Rogan topic, but Mic did a video on vegan omega 3, rebutting (an insanely stupid) paleo advocate on the Rogan experience. (Saying one reason to eat fish over flax is that it has other nutrients too... What the hell?)

https://youtu.be/XMA5ij-bsKc
I haven't watched that one yet I thought for sure he was a "the fat you eat is that you wear" supporter..
Mic is not. He recommends not using ool, but does recommend nuts
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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ThunderKiss65 wrote: Dried food shouldn't be refrigerated that is all I am saying, common sense.
It isn't common sense, and something being "common sense" is not an argument for it. I explained pretty clearly the mechanisms behind rancidity.
If you want to assert something like this, you'll have to provide some evidence.
ThunderKiss65 wrote: Flaxseeds will spoil in the fridge (because exposure to tempature changes)
That's like saying you'll catch a cold if you go out in the cold. Colds aren't causes by going in the cold, they're causes by viruses which are contracted from other humans.

Spoilage of flax seeds is due to oxidation and wetness, both of which are accelerated by heat.

ThunderKiss65 wrote: while hemp seeds and chia should be refrigerated after opening.
So should flax seeds. Interestingly, all three of these are stored and sold in bulk in stores unrefrigerated.
Chia seeds are actually more tolerant of being kept at room temperature than flax due to the lower fat content of chia seeds. Hemp, if not shelled, is also pretty tolerant. Shelled walnuts should probably be kept refrigerated too, but they can be left out as well due to the lower omega-3 content.
ThunderKiss65 wrote: The reason flax spoils so quickly is because of how nutritious flax seeds are.
No, it's due to the large amounts of ALA which easily oxidize and rancidify compared to other fats, and the water content. Flax seed oil (without water) also rancidifies quickly due to the kind of fat. Something high in other fats doesn't (look at olive oil, which is pretty shelf stable, and refined coconut oil, which is incredibly stable).

Other nutrients in flax seeds aren't very relevant to rancidification.
ThunderKiss65 wrote: If you alter the flaxseeds in anyway you will have to consume them with in hours to avoid eating oxidative or spoiled seeds.
Only if you leave them at room temperature. They'll keep ground in the fridge for days or even weeks sometimes, and you can freeze ground flax almost indefinitely.

ThunderKiss65 wrote: Stores put strawberries in their walkin coolers as well as all the produce!
Maybe some stores do, but strawberries are widely kept out on shelves in the produce aisle, not in the refrigerated area with leafy produce.
Stores have consumer accessible refrigeration, both dry and wet. They don't use it for strawberries.
ThunderKiss65 wrote: Strawberries, unlike most fruits have the seeds on the outside which means once the strawberries are picked they start to go rancid, quickly!
Strawberries don't go rancid, they get moldy. Rancidity primarily refers to decomposition of fats, which strawberries are very low in.
They get moldy not because the "seeds" are on the outside (I have no idea where you heard that, or if you just made it up or "discovered" it with faulty intuition), but because the "fruit" has very thin moist flesh rich in sugars which is a very good place for mold to grow. Mold spores cause them to go moldy, not the fatty acids in the seeds. The same is true with other aggregate fruits like raspberries and blackberries, since the flesh of the aggregates are so thin and delicate (may not be true of custard apples, I don't have experience with those).

Fruit like bananas and oranges are better protected by their skins, which are tough waxy and dry and provide a hostile environment for molds (often with volatile anti-fungal compounds naturally occurring).
ThunderKiss65 wrote: Have you ever bought organic strawberries and didn't eat them fast enough only to realize after a day or two they are moldy and spoiled?
I avoid organic produce, because it's covered in untested and often unregulated toxic chemicals. I prefer my pesticides tested and regulated.

It's a myth that organic farms don't use fungicides. The fungicides they use are just more toxic to humans and less effective against fungi (so they have to be used in larger amounts), including highly toxic copper compounds. More importantly, "organic" pesticides often don't break down, or they oxidize to even more toxic compounds that stay on the plant permanently and don't wash off easily (unlike conventional, modern, chemicals which break down and wash away easily).

A small selection of "organic" poisons that are on organic produce:
http://www.groworganic.com/weed-and-pest-control/organic-disease-control.html
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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Comparing storing dried food to catching a cold just shows how very little you truly know about food safety. The leading cause of food borne illness is time and tempature abuse. TCS is very important when it comes to food safety. TCS means tempatur control system. http://www.extension.umn.edu/food/food-safety/food-service-industry/prep-storage/keep-food-safe-with-time-and-temperature-control/
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

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Look into the "danger zone" or maybe take a food safety class.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Omega 3 to 6 ratio dilemma

Post by brimstoneSalad »

ThunderKiss65 wrote:Comparing storing dried food to catching a cold just shows how very little you truly know about food safety.
I'm saying that's what you're doing. :roll:
You're propagating a myth based on a correlation.
ThunderKiss65 wrote:The leading cause of food borne illness is time and tempature abuse. TCS is very important when it comes to food safety. TCS means tempatur control system. http://www.extension.umn.edu/food/food-safety/food-service-industry/prep-storage/keep-food-safe-with-time-and-temperature-control/
I'll quote from the website that YOU linked to.
TCS foods are time and temperature abused any time they’re in the temperature danger zone, 41°F to 140°F.
What temperature were you recommending that Flax seeds be kept at?
Room temperature. 73.4°F
You are recommending temperature abuse here.

Fluctuations in temperature actually don't matter as long as they don't fluctuate into the 41°F to 140°F range, which is where spoilage can occur quickly. The point is to keep them in those temperatures for as little time as possible.

It's hilarious when people link to articles they claim support their arguments, but that actually do the opposite. Aside from that, there's nothing in that article that has anything to do with what we're talking about here.
ThunderKiss65 wrote:Look into the "danger zone" or maybe take a food safety class.
I would recommend the same to you. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I've corrected you on a half-dozen points here, and you're wildly misrepresenting food safety practices in attempt to support your original false assertions.

Just admit you're wrong and leave it alone, you're just embarrassing yourself.

With dry storage, moisture is the primary issue, which only correlates with temperature fluctuations due to condensation. There's nothing wrong with keeping a dry food cooler other than wasting refrigeration space as long as it's kept dry and doesn't see so many long excursions into hot wet air that it accumulates enough condensation to spoil it.
There's nothing magical about refrigeration temperature in itself that helps these things spoil. Quite the contrary, refrigeration slows down the biological and chemical reactions involved.
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