Vegan Muscle Building Food

[brimstoneSalad]

Related nutrition question since this thread is discussing it: I've heard it's not good to eat TOO much ALA (walnuts, flax, etc.) since it's bad for the eyes. I can't find a good source for this info though. Anyone heard of this?

I think it's based on one population, and not a very strong correlation:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/omega3#Eyesight

We have no mechanistic evidence (I tend to hold mechanistic evidence in much higher regard than correlations in population studies, the latter just give us ideas of what to look into), so it's very likely a coincidence or from some kind of confounding variable. It may arise from damaged fats due to high temperature cooking of ALA, Norris seems to agree those are probably dangerous.
The best advise would be to not cook your oils for a long time or at high temperature, especially if exposed to oxygen, and particularly canola. I try to use them uncooked, or just in baking, and usually cook with monounsaturated fats if I'm frying anything.
None of this is really relevant to raw flax or walnuts.

All of that said, even if it is true, it takes a very long time to show up if at all, and macular degeneration is non-lethal. I'd be more worried about stroke, heart attack, and cancer.

[Jebus]

What's wrong with that shake? What ingredients would you recommend Jebus?

To me the advantage of a shake is that I can mix in lots of foods that would otherwise be boring or slow to eat. I try to avoid empty calories and instead get as many nutrients per calorie as possible. Here's what I don't like about the ingredients mentioned:

bananas- doesn't really add any nutrients that I don't get from greens. Mostly empty calories.
peanut butter- although this contains a good amount of nutrients, it also comes with a huge amount of Omega 6. I love eating peanut butter but try not to eat too much. I would never include it in a shake.
chocolate soy milk- Most vegans and vegetarians already get a bunch of soy in their food. Would be ok for someone who doesn't eat soy but commercial chocolate soy milks are usually sweetened. Would be better to get the cocoa taste from pure powder.
avocado- again tastes great and a decent source of protein but comes with a bunch of calories. I would rather eat this because of the great taste.

My current shake includes a bit of water, broccoli, purple cabbage, kale, ginger, cinnamon, cocoa powder, a bunch of flax seed, and pumpkin seeds. Doesn't taste great but I don't care.

[Jebus]

Flax gums up too much

Do you mean that it gets sticky? I include at least 10 tbsp in my shakes and haven't had this problem.

[Jebus]

you will get some small benefit as an untrained individual from lifting with 15% of your 1RM, sure, but I'd like to see how long that study was for... and how they safely figured out an accurate 1RM for untrained individuals.

This article is a great summary of the available research and includes the details of the Schonfeld et al. study you are wondering about: https://www.strengthandconditioningrese ... pertrophy/

The study actually found that resistance load made no difference in trained individuals.

I'd say "lift heavy" means a weight that is challenging for you in the given rep range, such that when you finish your last set, you could do few more, say 2-3, but not a lot more, say twice as many.

Why would anyone finish a set being able to do a few more? One of the few things we know for sure about resistance training is that you need to train to exhaustion to get optimal results. One should always train to exhaustion; light or heavy should simply refer to how many reps it takes you to get there. In the gym I see people going as heavy as 1 rep whereas some people do over 30 (extremely light).

I'd say "structured proven program" is a program that coaches or trainers have used effectively with a high number of clients from different backgrounds.

As there are so many variables involved, I question a trainer's ability to determine a program effective or not. I manage a hotel gym and have two experienced trainers in my team. It is a constant struggle to get them to look at the available research rather than use methods they have seen other trainers use or take something they read about in a magazine. In this field one can't really say that experience counts. They are much more motivated about how the client's perceive their competence rather than actually being competent. Although most research indicates that resistance training more than once per week is a waste of time you will never hear that from a trainer. It would be very bad for their business. Same thing applies to physical therapists.

Related nutrition question since this thread is discussing it:[/b] I've heard it's not good to eat TOO much ALA (walnuts, flax, etc.) since it's bad for the eyes. I can't find a good source for this info though. Anyone heard of this?

Never heard of that. Do you have a link?

[brimstoneSalad]

Agreed that cocoa powder is the best source of chocolate flavor. Both the cheapest and most nutritious.

bananas- doesn't really add any nutrients that I don't get from greens. Mostly empty calories.

I agree with that, BUT bananas provide a creamy texture a lot of people enjoy in smoothies. Without it, the texture isn't quite the same. So, I think adding a single banana can be useful for adding texture (and even recommending most people do this). There may be a better fruit or vegetable to do this, but I'm not familiar with it.

Like you, I can just chug something that I don't like and that has a bad taste/texture, and follow it with a bite of something good to cover the taste, but unfortunately a lot of people won't drink something if they don't like it.

So, I think we should start by recommending something pretty delicious, and then let them know how they can improve it IF they can manage to drink something less tasty

peanut butter- although this contains a good amount of nutrients, it also comes with a huge amount of Omega 6. I love eating peanut butter but try not to eat too much. I would never include it in a shake.
[...]avocado- again tastes great and a decent source of protein but comes with a bunch of calories. I would rather eat this because of the great taste.

I agree that it would seem like a waste to put these in a smoothie if you really enjoy eating them. Particularly avocado, which is expensive.
Peanut butter is pretty cheap, though, and it's not that hard to eat more Omega 3 elsewhere to balance the ratios if you're eating flax or canola oil. It would be very difficult to significantly improve the ratio using walnuts to compensate for the peanut butter.

Do you mean that it gets sticky? I include at least 10 tbsp in my shakes and haven't had this problem.

Flax is used as an egg replacer, so it gets kind of thick and gummy. However, it does take a few minutes to set up. If you drink it very quickly and right after you make it, you may not have that problem.

https://youtu.be/jb7j9LDgmYI?t=58

[onlyifchased]

The study actually found that resistance load made no difference in trained individuals.

[...]

Why would anyone finish a set being able to do a few more? One of the few things we know for sure about resistance training is that you need to train to exhaustion to get optimal results. One should always train to exhaustion; light or heavy should simply refer to how many reps it takes you to get there. In the gym I see people going as heavy as 1 rep whereas some people do over 30 (extremely light).

You finish sets still being able to do a few more so that your form doesn't break down to the point that you will injure yourself. Going to exhaustion is an advanced technique that is unsafe for new lifters. I would say it's beyond the scope of this discussion.

As there are so many variables involved, I question a trainer's ability to determine a program effective or not. I manage a hotel gym and have two experienced trainers in my team. It is a constant struggle to get them to look at the available research rather than use methods they have seen other trainers use or take something they read about in a magazine. In this field one can't really say that experience counts. They are much more motivated about how the client's perceive their competence rather than actually being competent. Although most research indicates that resistance training more than once per week is a waste of time you will never hear that from a trainer. It would be very bad for their business. Same thing applies to physical therapists.

I agree that there are many poor trainers who are more interested in fads than in proven methods. To be frank, however, I think what you've written is a more compelling critique of capitalism than of your trainers. That said, there are many trainers and coaches who experience does count, such as those who are training the best in their sports. They have clearly demonstrated their competence at designing programs to increase muscle mass (bodybuilding coaches) or increase strength (powerlifting coaches etc.). For an example more relevant to this thread: if a gym is producing happy healthy customers from its program, I would say that they have a tested, proven program for the goals of its members. Many such programs are available online for free.

Of course, everything depends on your goals. I think you are assuming everyone has a certain goal, like perhaps putting in the minimum effort to reap most of the health benefits of resistance exercise. Such a person might only do resistance training once per week. Many people have other goals, like stress relief, pleasure at working out, increasing the amount they can lift, getting 20" biceps, etc. and none of these goals are inherently invalid.

On the topic of goals, you clearly have a very different goal for your smoothies than I do. At least OP will have a variety of perspectives to choose from on what makes a smoothie good.