Feeding your pets Vegan?!

[bearbear287]

I was wondering what your guys opinions are of feeding your pets a vegan diet?

Hello everyone, it has been a while since I have last posted on here, my computer has been broken for quite some time. so I thought for my first post back on here, why not address this topic. It may have been talked about before on here, but oh well, I would like to see everyone's opinion.

I have a small dog, that I feed vegan, he is super healthy, and happy. In my opinion it is perfectly ok to feed your pet a vegan lifestyle. I have fish, that obviously eat fish food, but it is a different story with your cats and dogs. I know that my dog is so very kind, and so very weak, that he could not kill another animal, especially not a cow!! To me, it makes no sense to be feeding him animal products. I do not care if his ancestors were wolves, he is not, he is just a little guy.

If you are Vegan, do your pets Vegan as well?
Thank you for reading!

[Cirion Spellbinder]

I purchased an African Bullfrog before I became vegan. I feed her crickets or super worms that I purchase at Petco. She's probably very unhealthy because of this. Most online sources recommend that she consume small animals such as mice and goldfish in addition to these insects foods.

It's an unpleasant moral dilemma.

If there's a way to feed her vegan healthily, I'd certainly try it out, and if it worked, use it for the rest of her days. This would be ideal and solve the problem completely.

If I continue to feed her insects only, she will be unhealthy and suffer from nutritional deficiencies, violating her will to not suffer and die, while still violating the interests of many insects.

If I choose to feed her small animals, she will be healthy, but the interests of the many sentient beings (not much less sentient than herself) will be violated.

If I kill the frog, her interest to live will be violated, but the interests of many other sentient beings will not be violated as a result.

[brimstoneSalad]

I purchased an African Bullfrog before I became vegan. I feed her crickets or super worms that I purchase at Petco. She's probably very unhealthy because of this. Most online sources recommend that she consume small animals such as mice and goldfish in addition to these insects foods.

Insects and worms would seem to provide enough nutrition; maybe it's because of what the insects are eating?
There are usually supplement powders you can sprinkle on insects.

Can you try pieces of oyster as well? Not sure if she can eat them.

[brimstoneSalad]

I was wondering what your guys opinions are of feeding your pets a vegan diet?

All dogs should be fed vegan. Female cats should be fed vegan. Male cats should be fed a mix of vegan food and freegan meat food.
See this site about cats: http://www.vegancats.com/veganfaq.php

Make sure to get your vegan food from somewhere credible. There is bad vegan food out there.

For example, I would not trust Evolution dog food, made by Eric Weisman, a disgraced ex-chiropractor (already a fake doctor).
http://theveganoption.org/2013/03/13/ca ... ew-knight/

You can also make your own food, but make sure to follow a reputable recipe with lots of beans, and give your doggy specially made dog vitamins.

I know that my dog is so very kind, and so very weak, that he could not kill another animal, especially not a cow!! To me, it makes no sense to be feeding him animal products. I do not care if his ancestors were wolves, he is not, he is just a little guy.

If you have a lion, and the lion can eat human children (as some do 'in the wild'), should it be fed children?

That would be an appeal to nature fallacy. It doesn't matter what an animal can or can't do. If you had a wolf, you should feed the wolf vegan too as long as the wolf can be healthy on a vegan diet.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature

[Cirion Spellbinder]

Insects and worms would seem to provide enough nutrition; maybe it's because of what the insects are eating?
There are usually supplement powders you can sprinkle on insects.

This is what I found:

African Bullfrogs, especially while growing, require a great deal of calcium. Whole fishes and, to a lesser extent, pink mice, are ideal calcium sources.
Crickets alone, even if powdered with supplements, are not an adequate diet. Minnows, shiners, earthworms, roaches and crickets can make up the bulk of their diet. Goldfishes may be used on occasion, but should not be a staple.

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... tXdq0U76nM

Can you try pieces of oyster as well? Not sure if she can eat them.

I could feed them to the crickets.

[brimstoneSalad]

Crickets alone, even if powdered with supplements, are not an adequate diet.

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... tXdq0U76nM

I find that unlikely. If Calcium is the issue, supplementing the crickets should be fine. It's probably an issue of the amount of powder that sticks to the crickets. I'd try feeding the crickets more calcium so it's in them as well as on them.

The trouble with exotic animals is there is very little actual research into their nutritional needs or care, and it's usually anecdotal.

http://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/nutri ... er-insects

We know very little about the macro- and micro-nutrient requirements of reptiles; we don’t even know how well they digest their prey, especially hard-bodied insects like beetles. We know slightly more about bird nutrition, especially poultry, so a lot of reptile nutritional experiments start with data for poultry, especially with regard to calcium and phosphorus. Unfortunately, most insects are low in calcium compared to phosphorus content, which leads to calcium deficiency if not corrected with a well-balanced insect dust supplement.

This site looks more credible and informative, just based on a first glance.

Soldier fly grubs, often marketed as Calci-worms or Phoenix worms, are the larval form of Hermetia illucens. They are unique among insects in that they utilize calcium in their chitin matrix – similarly to crustaceans. As such, they do not need to be dusted and may be a candidate for a staple feeder.

It seems to offer some good advice on high calcium options. It's a long article, worth a read.

Can you try pieces of oyster as well? Not sure if she can eat them.

I could feed them to the crickets.

I'm not so sure that would be useful for calcium.
Since it's calcium, I'd just go with the soldier fly grubs, or others that site mentions which have more evidence behind them. Or just dope the cricket feed with more calcium and powder them really well.

[Cirion Spellbinder]

@brimstoneSalad
I appreciate the help. I'll feed her as recommended.

I have a bit of an odd question too: Can I dissolve a calcium supplement in water, dilute the solution, and then give it to the crickets? If so, how much water should I use and what concentration do I want?

[brimstoneSalad]

I have a bit of an odd question too: Can I dissolve a calcium supplement in water, dilute the solution, and then give it to the crickets? If so, how much water should I use and what concentration do I want?

That doesn't sound useful. I'd stick with the larvae that are known to contain calcium, and the powder.

The thing with calcium is that it has a low solubility in most forms, and it's required in large amounts -- crickets don't drink that much, so the stuff in water wouldn't help much.
Putting in in food might, because it would be in their digestive systems in larger amounts when they're eaten.

[Unknownfromheaven]

I was wondering what your guys opinions are of feeding your pets a vegan diet?

Hello everyone, it has been a while since I have last posted on here, my computer has been broken for quite some time. so I thought for my first post back on here, why not address this topic. It may have been talked about before on here, but oh well, I would like to see everyone's opinion.

I have a small dog, that I feed vegan, he is super healthy, and happy. In my opinion it is perfectly ok to feed your pet a vegan lifestyle. I have fish, that obviously eat fish food, but it is a different story with your cats and dogs. I know that my dog is so very kind, and so very weak, that he could not kill another animal, especially not a cow!! To me, it makes no sense to be feeding him animal products. I do not care if his ancestors were wolves, he is not, he is just a little guy.

If you are Vegan, do your pets Vegan as well?
Thank you for reading!

Cats cannot go with vegan diets. Feed a lion with carrots...i am sure it will work great.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/2 ... 44213.html
healthypets[dot]mercola[dotcom]/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/25/vegan-diet-dangers.aspx

[brimstoneSalad]

Cats cannot go with vegan diets. Feed a lion with carrots...i am sure it will work great.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/2 ... 44213.html
healthypets[dot]mercola[dotcom]/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/25/vegan-diet-dangers.aspx

Please don't link mercola here; it's a quack site, and not reliable.
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
You really can't trust anything he says, so please don't link there as a source to anything. Like a broken clock is right twice a day, he will occasionally be right, but the vast majority of his positions are based on an agenda of pandering to his audience and selling things, not on science.

See the vegan cats site FAQ: http://www.vegancats.com/veganfaq.php#1070

Is it true that vegancats.com is telling some people to feed their cats meat?
Yes. After much soul-searching, we have decided to change our official recommedations for certain cats.

Urinary tract problems are fairly common in cats, and because of the relative acidity of meat to vegetable protein, some vegan cats suffer from them.

Although we have been giving advice for some time on how these problems can be minimized while still feeding a completely vegan diet, we have found that many of our customers have not been following this advice. It is imperitive to feed your cat a vegan diet properly for optimal health, as not doing so may jeopardize your cat's well-being (as is the case with improper feeding on any other diet - ideal nutrition is a necessity for optimal health!)

Unless you are very committed to following the advice outlined on our site by feeding your cat a properly balanced diet as per the information below, we recommend that you mitigate the risk of urinary tract problems by feeding males cats only a 25-75% vegan diet and females a 50-100% vegan diet. Of course, many cats (both make and female) will thrive on a simple vegan diet and never have any complicatons from urinary tract infections or crystal formations, you need to be prepared to adjust the diet accordingly for cats who may be prone to such issues.[...]

Dogs can pretty easily eat vegan; go with a recipe, and give them some supplements to be safe.
Female cats can eat formulated vegan diets pretty easily too (most will have no problem).

Male cats may need a little bit of meat to adjust urine pH if they have urinary tract issues, or careful monitoring of urine pH.

Here are a couple cat and dog foods that are generally regarded as well formulated:

http://www.vegepet.com/
http://www.amipetfood.com/en

Most dogs will have no problem on these, except possibly very large breeds as puppies (this is a rare exception, where they may need extra creatine or other supplements)
Most cats will also have no problems on these diets.