Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Vegan message board for support on vegan related issues and questions.
Topics include philosophy, activism, effective altruism, plant-based nutrition, and diet advice/discussion whether high carb, low carb (eco atkins/vegan keto) or anything in between.
Meat eater vs. Vegan debate welcome, but please keep it within debate topics.
Post Reply
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10280
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by brimstoneSalad »

I thought I should copy this here, since it might be useful.

The more correct facts we use and the fewer mistakes we make, the stronger our arguments and the fewer holes omnivores can poke in them.

That's hows come I'm always correcting yous guys. I correct because I care. ;)
The meat- and dairy industries emit more greenhouse gasses than all other emissions combined, making them the single biggest contributors to global warming.
Not all others combined, just the ones we can actually reduce with our current infrastructure without starving to death and destroying the world economy; of the "optional" emissions, they are king.

It is one of the biggest methane producers, and because methane is pretty much the most potent greenhouse gas (common one anyway), that's a big concern. It's hard to compare directly to CO2, but in the short term, around 70 times the potency by mass.

Suggested reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

The totality of atmospheric methane contributes up to 9%. This is likely still an underestimate because we're still learning about its compounding effects, like on O3, but it's a safe one.

But that's deceptively small in statistics, because up to ~72% of the greenhouse effect is from water vapor and clouds. It's the little stuff that makes a big difference, persists in the atmosphere, and creates a kind of feedback loop (whereas water enters and exits the atmosphere very quickly depending on global temperatures and weather conditions).

[edit] 9% * 3.6 (=1/(1-.72)) = 32.4%
(assuming these two values)

All said, when you take into account some 40% of methane being natural, multiply by 3.6 to normalize for the effect of water, and count only Animal Agriculture's share of anthropogenic methane (It's usually called enteric fermentation and manure management, possibly to hide the fact that we're talking about cow farts? Maybe not), which is about 1/3rd (most of the rest is natural gas released from drilling and mining), you get that cow farts (and poops, and other farmed animals too) are responsible for about 6.5% of total persistent global warming gases [edit](aside from water, in the high estimate, but since they are well mixed this is probably similar elsewhere).
[This is a crude calculation at best]

However, if you want to count it for it's contribution to anthropogenic global warming, which would only be reasonable, you have to consider that CO2 and O3 is mostly natural (even now), and have only increased by about 40%, while CH4 (Methane) has increased 170% in the last couple hundred years, [edit] which means the CO2 contributions from humans is total relative to the total. This is easier said than done, and requires adding up everything else to normalize.

16% [EDIT: this is probably bad math, I've seen around 18% elsewhere from more credible sources than cowspiracy]
Normalizing for only CO2, Methane, and Ozone, it could be up to 21%... but still, there are many factors when gases are mixed like this and it's hard to account for more minor gases and catalytic effects.

That's just the farts (and it would be a little more than that, since cows did exist before 1750 too, but there weren't many of them).
Transportation and industrial infrastructure for the animals, their products, their food, and the processes needed to grow that food increases that footprint, but enough to make it a majority? No. 20% total almost certainly (given the CO2 emissions in agriculture and transportation), but I would balk at more than 30%. We spend a lot of energy in the home, at work, in unrelated industries (particularly construction), and on transportation of our persons around town.

Being conservative, 16% alone is very significant, and it pretty much comes down to us turning off our lights, computers, heating, and air conditioning (as it's comparable to the total of all emissions associated with residential energy usage), or not eating meat anymore to have a similar effect.
That's why I say it's the largest source of optional emissions -- the other things we can do right now aren't very realistic (Yes, less realistic than the world eating less meat, hard to believe).
InGodWeTrust
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:58 am
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by InGodWeTrust »

one volcanic eruption does more harm to the atmosphere than mankind has in his whole existence! You are probably believers in the writings on the Georgia stones. So are you in the top 20% that get to live or the 80% to be exterminated? Scientist can come up with data to support anything if they try hard enough. Look at what Al Gores bunch did for him and there selves. Not to mention what they have done for our country moving all the industry to china where there are no regulations, now there pollution is floating right back here to California. Bravo all brains and no common sense. Guess all us hicks and dumass middle class folk are going to have to re-take our country back from the intellectual fools that are destroying it. This country was founded on christian values and the separation of church and state was intended that there should be no religious test meaning no discrimination for which branch of Christianity you belonged to. And they prayed in congress to start each day. and you are free to believe what you want but not free to twist the constitution to suit your needs or beliefs because now you are attacking the kind of people who founded this country and made it the greatest nation in the world
User avatar
EquALLity
I am God
Posts: 3022
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:31 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: United States of Canada

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by EquALLity »

Can someone take on what he's saying at the top (if you think it's worth it)? I don't know much about that stuff.
This country was founded on christian values and the separation of church and state was intended that there should be no religious test meaning no discrimination for which branch of Christianity you belonged to.
Rick Perry, is that you?

Yeah, please back this up, considering not all of the founding fathers were Christians, and that we have separation of Church and State (which, no, doesn't mean freedom to be some form of Christian).

...Or are you going to tell me that religious freedom does not mean freedom from religion?

...And then you're going to tell me how persecuted you are, right?
And they prayed in congress to start each day.
That shouldn't happen, and I was surprised to find out it does. We even have a woman who self-identifies as someone with no religious affiliation in Congress (Kyrsten Sinema) today.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washin ... on-as-none
you are free to believe what you want but not free to twist the constitution to suit your needs or beliefs because now you are attacking the kind of people who founded this
So are we free in America to be atheists or not?
greatest nation in the world
Greatest nation in the world?

Yeah, America is the greatest, like it was when it annexed all those countries (even when it said it wouldn't), and put dictators into power, and when it basically just has a choice between two parties who don't do anything about certain highly important issues, and because there was just a man sentenced to 37 years in solitary confinement for having people update his Facebook status.
Last edited by EquALLity on Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
User avatar
EquALLity
I am God
Posts: 3022
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:31 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: United States of Canada

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by EquALLity »

Btw-
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10280
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by brimstoneSalad »

EquALLity wrote:Can someone take on what he's saying at the top (if you think it's worth it)? I don't know much about that stuff.
It's like saying one asteroid does more damage than all of the nuclear bombs humans have ever detonated.

1. It's irrelevant, and doesn't mean we should go on detonating nuclear bombs everywhere just because 'nature' can and has done worse in the past.

One particularly big asteroid can, but...

2. There's no such thing as "one asteroid" or "one volcanic eruption" as if it's some one-size fits all standard event. They range from minuscule (where the claim is false), to world destroying events that cause mass extinctions and would kill off humanity as we know it. The "average" eruption/asteroid/solar flare/whatever is trivial, since the vast majority of these events are small, which makes any generic claim like that a lie.


The majority of greenhouse gases are produced naturally, and nature is a self regulating machine to some extent; they're also absorbed through geological processes.
The rate of production against the rate of absorption determines how hot this planet is.

We have increased the rate of production, but not increased the rate of absorption -- ergo, the planet will get hotter.
The planet will not tun into Venus (like Ching Hai claims) because when you increase the rate of production, the absorption rate will increase a bit to compensate (it will reach equilibrium at a higher temperature)- mainly, through a lot more rain and erosion thanks to the accelerated water cycle due to a larger amount of energy in the atmosphere.

Make sense?
Let me know if you have any questions. :)
User avatar
Jebus
Master of the Forum
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:08 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by Jebus »

InGodWeTrust wrote:the greatest nation in the world
How can the greatest nation in the world be the fattest nation in the world?
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10280
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Jebus wrote:
InGodWeTrust wrote:the greatest nation in the world
How can the greatest nation in the world be the fattest nation in the world?
Great also means large/big.

"There's a great deal of mud on that thar Bible. Better wersh it off afore you bring it to church!"
User avatar
EquALLity
I am God
Posts: 3022
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:31 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: United States of Canada

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by EquALLity »

Thanks, that was very informative! I think I'm going to do some more reading on this topic.

When I said the top, I meant this:
one volcanic eruption does more harm to the atmosphere than mankind has in his whole existence! You are probably believers in the writings on the Georgia stones. So are you in the top 20% that get to live or the 80% to be exterminated? Scientist can come up with data to support anything if they try hard enough. Look at what Al Gores bunch did for him and there selves. Not to mention what they have done for our country moving all the industry to china where there are no regulations, now there pollution is floating right back here to California.
What does he mean we believe in the 'George stones'?
Oh, would that be this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

What is this about extermination? :?
What is he referring to with Al Gore?
What is he talking about with China? Their pollution is going to California? What? And why is he bringing that up? Is it just a random fact?
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10280
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by brimstoneSalad »

He or she is a crazy person. This is what we call a rant. None of it has anything to do with anything else.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I only worry about debunking arguments that look sane and articulate, because nobody is going to take this person seriously.

It's a matter of focusing your time and resources where they will have the most benefit.
User avatar
EquALLity
I am God
Posts: 3022
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:31 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: United States of Canada

Re: Global warming contribution from Animal Agriculture

Post by EquALLity »

He or she is a crazy person. This is what we call a rant. None of it has anything to do with anything else.
Hahaha!

Alright, good, because I had no idea what the hell that was.
It's a matter of focusing your time and resources where they will have the most benefit.
Hm, yeah, I agree.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
Post Reply