A Thread about Vegetarianism on a Latin Forum

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Re: A Thread about Vegetarianism on a Latin Forum

Post by brimstoneSalad » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:29 pm

@teo123 The point about B-12 is better made that we supplement many farmed animals on it. The reasons may not matter; I don't know if it's accurate that antibiotics are more to blame, or the diet they're fed.
The point about antibiotic resistance is good, you could emphasize that's one of the few real existential threats to humanity.

I think you need to expand on the Omega 3 part, and it's useful to talk about EPA/DHA and the availability from algae for older people and babies who may benefit from it (young adults probably only need ALA).

The last part about protein isn't necessarily a great point when it comes to adult diets. Adults and infants may have different needs. It's fine as part of the argument, but you might also reference chimps and nutritional consensus to make a more complete argument. And mention that vegans can easily get a lot of protein too from a primarily bean and green based diet (avoiding cereal grains and sweet fruits) which can support significant muscle mass as seen in many vegan strength athletes.

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Post by teo123 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:18 am

brimstoneSalad wrote:I don't know if it's accurate that antibiotics are more to blame,
As far as I know, there is no controversy that antibiotics cause B12 deficiency in cows.
brimstoneSalad wrote:The point about antibiotic resistance is good, you could emphasize that's one of the few real existential threats to humanity.
Now, as far as I know, that is a fairly controversial subject. Many people know it's controversial, and treating it as if it weren't controversial damages your credibility. It's unclear how much factory farming contributes to antibiotic resistance, because not many bacteria that attack cows and pigs also attack humans. The best thing that can be said is that it probably has some effect now, and that maybe it will be much more of a problem in the future.
brimstoneSalad wrote:I think you need to expand on the Omega 3 part, and it's useful to talk about EPA/DHA and the availability from algae for older people and babies who may benefit from it (young adults probably only need ALA).
I don't really see the point here. I know there is a difference between plant and animal omega-3-acids, and that human body can, with efficiency that varies between individuals, convert between plant and animal omega-3-acids. But what's the point of trying to get a lot of omega-3-acids if the evidence that they help isn't really there? This whole story about omega-3-acids preventing heart-disease is based on yet another false story, that Inuits have a particularly low rate of heart-disease. I can't do a lot of reasearch about it on-line right now, I only have a few MB of Internet left this month.
brimstoneSalad wrote:The last part about protein isn't necessarily a great point when it comes to adult diets.
Why exactly? If anything, small children should need *more* protein, since they grow fastly, than adults.
brimstoneSalad wrote:nutritional consensus
I don't think such papers are evidence of consensus. A study, showing, for example, that 97% of climate scientists agree that anthropogenic global warming is real, is a relatively convincing piece of evidence. A bunch of nutritionists agreeing to sign a "declaration" that says that vegetarian diets aren't harmful really isn't. It's fundamentally no different from "Deklaracija o Nazivu i Položaju Hrvatskog Jezika", where a bunch of linguists signed that Croatian and Serbian are different languages. A few decades later, even more linguists (including Noam Chomsky) signed the "Deklaracija o Zajedničkom Jeziku", that Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian and Montenegrian are the same language.

Anyway, go ahead, edit my essay before re-posting it on some other classics forum, if you think you can make it better.

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Post by teo123 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:48 am

So, @brimstoneSalad, have you tried sharing that essay on some other forums about classics? If so, can you link there? And do you think that's likely to change anybodies mind there?

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Post by brimstoneSalad » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:46 am

@teo123 I don't really have time for other forums, although I know it might be beneficial to post elsewhere and link back here.

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Post by teo123 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 pm

@EquALLity, you know a lot about history. Do you also happen to know some Latin?
What do you think about the essay about vegetarianism I've written in Latin? It's available at the bottom of this web-page. If it's down (000webhost is having a lot of problems recently), I think I've also posted it somewhere in this thread.
If you think it's good, would you find some active forums about classics (or wherever you think people are likely to know Latin) and repost it there? If you think you can make it better, feel free to modify it. I've already posted it on the TextKit forum, however, I currently only have access to the slow and expensive cellular Internet (there aren't many WiFi hotspots here in Donji Miholjac, and you usually get 2G EDGE connection and sometimes 3G H+ connection, 4G is only available in the cities), and I have many real-life issues, so I am not really in a position to spend time researching which classics forums on the Internet are active and sign up to them. @brimstoneSalad also thinks it is a good idea, but he or she also doesn't have time to do that.

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Post by teo123 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:52 pm

Made a video based on that:
https://youtu.be/BZe4HO2ziAY
What do you think about it? Will it be effective?

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Post by teo123 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:09 am

@Red, what do you think about the video I linked to in my last post?

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Post by Red » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:19 pm

teo123 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:09 am
@Red, what do you think about the video I linked to in my last post?
Applied with strict rigor, that's how bee society works in Jerry Seinfeld's "Bee Movie" and apparently in real life. Doesn't seem like much fun. You are born, grow a little, attend school for three days, and then go to work for the rest of your life. "Are you going to work us to death?" a young bee asks during a briefing. "We certainly hope so!" says the smiling lecturer, to appreciative chuckles all around.

One bee, however, is not so thrilled with the system. His name is Barry B. Benson, and he is voiced by Seinfeld as a rebel who wants to experience the world before settling down to a lifetime job as, for example, a Crud Remover. He sneaks into a formation of ace pollinators, flies out of the hive, has a dizzying flight through Central Park, and ends up (never mind how) making a friend of a human named Vanessa (voice of Renee Zellweger). Then their relationship blossoms into something more, although not very much more, given the physical differences. Compared to them, a Chihuahua and a Great Dane would have it easy.

This friendship is against all the rules. Bees are forbidden to speak to humans. And humans tend to swat bees (there's a good laugh when Barry explains how a friend was offed by a rolled-up copy of French Vogue). What Barry mostly discovers from human society is, gasp!, that humans rob the bees of all their honey and eat it. He and Adam, his best pal (Matthew Broderick), even visit a bee farm, which looks like forced labor of the worst sort. Their instant analysis of the human-bee economic relationship is pure Marxism, if only they knew it.

Barry and Adam end up bringing a lawsuit against the human race for its exploitation of all bees everywhere, and this court case (with a judge voiced by Oprah Winfrey) is enlivened by the rotund, syrupy voiced Layton T. Montgomery (John Goodman), attorney for the human race, who talks like a cross between Fred Thompson and Foghorn Leghorn. If the bees win their case, Montgomery jokes, he'd have to negotiate with silkworms for the stuff that holds up his britches.

All of this material, written by Seinfeld and writers associated with his television series, tries hard, but never really takes off. We learn at the outset of the movie that bees theoretically cannot fly. Unfortunately, in the movie, that applies only to the screenplay. It is really, really, really hard to care much about a platonic romantic relationship between Renee Zellweger and a bee, although if anyone could pull if off, she could.

Barry and Adam come across as earnest, articulate young bees who pursue logic into the realm of the bizarre, as sometimes happened on the "Seinfeld" show. Most of the humor is verbal, and tends toward the gently ironic rather than the hilarious. Chris Rock scores best, as a mosquito named Mooseblood, but his biggest laugh comes from a recycled lawyer joke.

In the tradition of many recent animated films, several famous people turn up playing themselves, including Sting (how did he earn that name?) and Ray Liotta, who is called as a witness because his brand of Ray Liotta Honey profiteers from the labors of bees.

Liotta's character and voice work are actually kind of inspired, leaving me to regret the absence of B.B. King, Burt's Bees, Johnny B. Goode, and the evil Canadian bee slavemaster Norman Jewison, who -- oh, I forgot, he exploits maple trees.
Learning never exhausts the mind.
-Leonardo da Vinci

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Post by teo123 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:04 am

Red wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:19 pm
teo123 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:09 am
@Red, what do you think about the video I linked to in my last post?
Applied with strict rigor, that's how bee society works in Jerry Seinfeld's "Bee Movie" and apparently in real life. Doesn't seem like much fun. You are born, grow a little, attend school for three days, and then go to work for the rest of your life. "Are you going to work us to death?" a young bee asks during a briefing. "We certainly hope so!" says the smiling lecturer, to appreciative chuckles all around.

One bee, however, is not so thrilled with the system. His name is Barry B. Benson, and he is voiced by Seinfeld as a rebel who wants to experience the world before settling down to a lifetime job as, for example, a Crud Remover. He sneaks into a formation of ace pollinators, flies out of the hive, has a dizzying flight through Central Park, and ends up (never mind how) making a friend of a human named Vanessa (voice of Renee Zellweger). Then their relationship blossoms into something more, although not very much more, given the physical differences. Compared to them, a Chihuahua and a Great Dane would have it easy.

This friendship is against all the rules. Bees are forbidden to speak to humans. And humans tend to swat bees (there's a good laugh when Barry explains how a friend was offed by a rolled-up copy of French Vogue). What Barry mostly discovers from human society is, gasp!, that humans rob the bees of all their honey and eat it. He and Adam, his best pal (Matthew Broderick), even visit a bee farm, which looks like forced labor of the worst sort. Their instant analysis of the human-bee economic relationship is pure Marxism, if only they knew it.

Barry and Adam end up bringing a lawsuit against the human race for its exploitation of all bees everywhere, and this court case (with a judge voiced by Oprah Winfrey) is enlivened by the rotund, syrupy voiced Layton T. Montgomery (John Goodman), attorney for the human race, who talks like a cross between Fred Thompson and Foghorn Leghorn. If the bees win their case, Montgomery jokes, he'd have to negotiate with silkworms for the stuff that holds up his britches.

All of this material, written by Seinfeld and writers associated with his television series, tries hard, but never really takes off. We learn at the outset of the movie that bees theoretically cannot fly. Unfortunately, in the movie, that applies only to the screenplay. It is really, really, really hard to care much about a platonic romantic relationship between Renee Zellweger and a bee, although if anyone could pull if off, she could.

Barry and Adam come across as earnest, articulate young bees who pursue logic into the realm of the bizarre, as sometimes happened on the "Seinfeld" show. Most of the humor is verbal, and tends toward the gently ironic rather than the hilarious. Chris Rock scores best, as a mosquito named Mooseblood, but his biggest laugh comes from a recycled lawyer joke.

In the tradition of many recent animated films, several famous people turn up playing themselves, including Sting (how did he earn that name?) and Ray Liotta, who is called as a witness because his brand of Ray Liotta Honey profiteers from the labors of bees.

Liotta's character and voice work are actually kind of inspired, leaving me to regret the absence of B.B. King, Burt's Bees, Johnny B. Goode, and the evil Canadian bee slavemaster Norman Jewison, who -- oh, I forgot, he exploits maple trees.
I am not sure what you are trying to say, and I've watched that movie. Do you mean to say that I am like a bee and that the intellectuals are like humans in that movie?

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