Not accepting gifts and does eating meat makes you a bad person if you're aware of what's happening?

[rarity]

There is one thing I would find hard. It's not accepting gifts, like there is someone you like or want to make you happy and give you a gift that is not vegan. How would you deal with that? I don't want to make anyone feel sad for not accepting a gift.

One of my friend got angry at me for calling him a bad person because he eats meat and then started going overly sarcastic and taking everything out of context and laughing, so kinda like he wanted to make me feel like an idiot for being vegan and caring about the suffering of the animals. So the thing is I think he's a bad person for eating meat while knowing that it's unethical and knowing the suffering he causes to the animals that is unnecessary while not caring. Do you think that makes him a bad person for knowing all of that but still not caring?

[Nightcell001]

Accepting non vegan gifts rest on a few principles :
- Do you value more the emotional feeling of the giver or the suffering of the beings involved in making the gifts ?
- Is the giver close enough to you to know what internal reaction you would have by receiving a non vegan gift ?
- Is the giver absolutely clueless about the process of making the gift ?

If you answered yes to the first one ( value more the suffering than the feeling ), you should go ahead and decline the gift. Future gifts will be vegan or non existant.
If you answered yes to the second one, the gift is totally inappropriate and could be evil intentioned.
At last, if you answered yes to the third one, education is the key. Inform the person how the gift was made and how easy it is to find the vegan alternative.

On the second point now. Calling someone a bad person is rarely something I would do on the get go. Granted this is my personal experience, I have never seen a conversation go well by initiating this sort of criticism. If you do not care about the interaction with this person and just want to push the truth out there, then by any means say he is a bad person. Knowing the kind of suffering and still contributing for taste pleasure is evil.

[Jebus]

So the thing is I think he's a bad person for eating meat while knowing that it's unethical and knowing the suffering he causes to the animals that is unnecessary while not caring. Do you think that makes him a bad person for knowing all of that but still not caring?

I find it difficult to categorize people as good or bad. One could easily argue that all of us are bad. It is much easier (and better) to categorize people as better or worse.

All other factors being equal, is he a worse person than someone who has aligned his behavior to his realization that eating meat causes animal suffering? Yes, no doubt.

[Canastenard]

Once some gave me some food like how she often does, but I discreetly looked at the ingredients of the brick of vegetable soup and I realized there was whey. Because it wasn't an obvious ingredient and to make sure to not finish things into an argument (I have an history of having arguments related to animal products with that person since going vegan), I accepted the gift. Even though not consuming it myself won't make much of a difference, the thought of eating something with animal products as ingredients seems disgusting to me (it was clealy listed as an ingredient, not a trace contamination), I instead gave it to someone else who isn't vegan- but moe accepting of it as the first person.

Before that I was gifted some chocolate sweets last Christmas, and declined them because of the egg white (ingredient for meringue). It was someone from my close family (don't remember exactly who ), but I politely declined it and things were fine. I have less of an history of arguing over veganism with people other than my mother, so it was less risky.

I hope the Christmas chocolate case will serve as a lesson to READ THE INGREDIENTS (putting in caps and bold because that's how I feel when I'm gifted something non-vegan), but it won't achieve much for the person in the first case who has eye problems (and won't read ingredients written in small characters), not to mention I was gifted the krick of soup because that person realized only after buying that there was spinach in it (which they hate) even though it was clearly indicated on the packaging.

[PsYcHo]

One of my friend got angry at me for calling him a bad person because he eats meat

Have you never eaten meat or dairy? If you were born and raised a Vegan, then my next question doesn't apply.

Were you a bad person? Or were you just ill-informed?

Would someone telling you that you are a bad person make you want to listen to their opinion?

[rarity]

One of my friend got angry at me for calling him a bad person because he eats meat

Have you never eaten meat or dairy? If you were born and raised a Vegan, then my next question doesn't apply.

Were you a bad person? Or were you just ill-informed?

Would someone telling you that you are a bad person make you want to listen to their opinion?

I used to eat meat and dairy sometimes. I would say I wasn't informed or just didn't understand. You don't see the animal getting killed or anything when you go buy meat so I didn't think much of it. I also believed meat was necessary for good health as most people recommend but it turns out I was wrong. I feel bad for contributing to the suffering of animals and if I was aware of what I was doing but didn't care I would say I was a bad person. The difference with him is that he is already informed about all of it which is why I think he's a bad person. I mean I wouldn't see someone who pay a someone else to kill and torture animals as someone who is good of course.

If someone tells me that I'm a bad person for a certain reason I'll usually ask why it makes me a bad person and if I can justify my action. If I can't justify my actions and just do it because "whatever, I don't care" then I'd say they're right if it make sense at all of course.

[PsYcHo]

I used to eat meat and dairy sometimes.

So the very first time that you learned that eating meat and dairy caused harm, did you quit that day?

Good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things. A famous dictator was Vegetarian. Pablo Escobar killed hundreds of people, but supported his community with food and schools. Nelson Mandela sanctioned horrible acts of violence before he became the person we know him as today.

Your friend may be doing something bad, but to tell them that they are a bad person isn't the way to get them to change. That only lets them know that you don't believe they have the ability to change, and your current beliefs are more important than their friendship.

Is it easier to convince a stranger who you consider a bad person to change their choices, or to convince a friend who is making bad choices to think about the choices they are making?

Don't alienate possible allies easily. It's easier to convert a friend than an enemy.

[rarity]

I used to eat meat and dairy sometimes.

So the very first time that you learned that eating meat and dairy caused harm, did you quit that day?

Good people can do bad things, and bad people can do good things. A famous dictator was Vegetarian. Pablo Escobar killed hundreds of people, but supported his community with food and schools. Nelson Mandela sanctioned horrible acts of violence before he became the person we know him as today.

Your friend may be doing something bad, but to tell them that they are a bad person isn't the way to get them to change. That only lets them know that you don't believe they have the ability to change, and your current beliefs are more important than their friendship.

Is it easier to convince a stranger who you consider a bad person to change their choices, or to convince a friend who is making bad choices to think about the choices they are making?

Don't alienate possible allies easily. It's easier to convert a friend than an enemy.

Well, I actually went vegan for health at first then later realized the suffering of the animals while I was vegan. I watched a documentary called Earthlings and I saw everything.

Yeah I guess you're right I shouldn't go at it this way I should be more friendly. Maybe talking about it with him sometimes but not telling anything bad about his choice or calling a bad person for a choice he make. It would be better to just inform him more on some problems his choices is causing. Also yes of course if you're a vegan but also a killer I wouldn't see you as a good person.

[PsYcHo]

One of the major points most of us on this forum agree on is reduction of harm.

If you continue to be friends with this person, you have many opportunities to reduce harm. If they come to hang out, you can make Vegan food. (Potato snacks work well. Salt and crisped in the oven) If they feel you care about it, but aren't judging them, they may decide to get a glass of tea instead of a glass of milk, just to be friendly to you.

It's okay to be an activist, but to quote an old saying- you catch more flies with honey (substitute ) than you do with vinegar

[rarity]

One of the major points most of us on this forum agree on is reduction of harm.

If you continue to be friends with this person, you have many opportunities to reduce harm. If they come to hang out, you can make Vegan food. (Potato snacks work well. Salt and crisped in the oven) If they feel you care about it, but aren't judging them, they may decide to get a glass of tea instead of a glass of milk, just to be friendly to you.

It's okay to be an activist, but to quote an old saying- you catch more flies with honey (substitute :D ) than you do with vinegar

Yeah that's right, I really didn't think about this one. Thanks for mentioning it. :)