Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by brimstoneSalad »

unethicalVegan wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:20 am Honestly, Isaac is the type of person that only sees what he wants to see. Out of that 6-hour convo, the only thing he will probably get out of is "ugh this unethical vegan guy thinks if an argument is not sound then its not valid"
I mean I brought up several times (before the video started) that he's claiming validity out of thin air.

ME:"If both your premises are true can your conclusion be false"
AY:"No"
ME:"So you're claiming validity, hence you should show this with a set of inference rule(s)"
AY:"That's retarded, I don't have to show things that are fundamentally true. NTT is as true as the argument All men are mortal.Socrates is a man.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal."
ME:"This Socrates example is a valid argument BECAUSE it can be shown that there is an inferences rule that infers the conclusion. The inference rule called "implication elimination" (also known as modus ponens") can be applied in the Socrates example. So again what is the inference rule used in NTT.
AY:"I'm not gonna go down this level of autism.... blah blah blah"

I seriously would not recommend Philo debating AY. Not until AY at least has outgrown puberty
Do you have a screenshot of that exchange? It'd be great to have it for the record.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by brimstoneSalad »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:38 am
unethicalVegan wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:20 am Honestly, Isaac is the type of person that only sees what he wants to see. Out of that 6-hour convo, the only thing he will probably get out of is "ugh this unethical vegan guy thinks if an argument is not sound then its not valid"
I mean I brought up several times (before the video started) that he's claiming validity out of thin air.

ME:"If both your premises are true can your conclusion be false"
AY:"No"
ME:"So you're claiming validity, hence you should show this with a set of inference rule(s)"
AY:"That's retarded, I don't have to show things that are fundamentally true. NTT is as true as the argument All men are mortal.Socrates is a man.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal."
ME:"This Socrates example is a valid argument BECAUSE it can be shown that there is an inferences rule that infers the conclusion. The inference rule called "implication elimination" (also known as modus ponens") can be applied in the Socrates example. So again what is the inference rule used in NTT.
AY:"I'm not gonna go down this level of autism.... blah blah blah"

I seriously would not recommend Philo debating AY. Not until AY at least has outgrown puberty
Do you have a screenshot of that exchange? It'd be great to have it for the record.
In case anybody actually misunderstood this, I was clearly asking Unethical Vegan if HE had a screenshot. I thought this was a text exchange; I guess it was from the UV vs AY debate?
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by NonZeroSum »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:42 pm In case anybody actually misunderstood this, I was clearly asking Unethical Vegan if HE had a screenshot. I thought this was a text exchange; I guess it was from the UV vs AY debate?
I record Unnethical Vegan vs Ask Yourself debate, put it up unlisted for Unnethical Vegan to give his feedback on and post the transcript and link to the forum.
AY uploads it to his channel.
Unnethical Vegan gives summaries, and highlights this clip from the transcript.
You confused it for a text exchange and just ask to see the context, whether it be twitter or whatever.
Militant Vegan thinks he's hit the jackpot on his quest to serve Isaac :roll:
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by brimstoneSalad »

The funny thing is that I don't even think you're doing anything wrong with these recordings (JHC was the only exception, and you worked that out with him and removed compromising bits, so no harm there).
I would have no reason not to ask openly for you to record things if that's what was going on.

I think you're doing an public service in saving important conversations like this for reference and posterity.
How much would historians have loved to have an ear into some of the conversations that went on in anti-slavery circles? I think this stuff is going to be inherently valuable from a historical lens (hi future, if you're reading this, just to let you know you have NonZeroSum to thank for the pristine records he kept for you).

The conspiracy theories are just beyond ridiculous.
unethicalVegan
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by unethicalVegan »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:42 pm
brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:38 am
unethicalVegan wrote: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:20 am Honestly, Isaac is the type of person that only sees what he wants to see. Out of that 6-hour convo, the only thing he will probably get out of is "ugh this unethical vegan guy thinks if an argument is not sound then its not valid"
I mean I brought up several times (before the video started) that he's claiming validity out of thin air.

ME:"If both your premises are true can your conclusion be false"
AY:"No"
ME:"So you're claiming validity, hence you should show this with a set of inference rule(s)"
AY:"That's retarded, I don't have to show things that are fundamentally true. NTT is as true as the argument All men are mortal.Socrates is a man.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal."
ME:"This Socrates example is a valid argument BECAUSE it can be shown that there is an inferences rule that infers the conclusion. The inference rule called "implication elimination" (also known as modus ponens") can be applied in the Socrates example. So again what is the inference rule used in NTT.
AY:"I'm not gonna go down this level of autism.... blah blah blah"

I seriously would not recommend Philo debating AY. Not until AY at least has outgrown puberty
Do you have a screenshot of that exchange? It'd be great to have it for the record.
In case anybody actually misunderstood this, I was clearly asking Unethical Vegan if HE had a screenshot. I thought this was a text exchange; I guess it was from the UV vs AY debate?
Yeah, this conversation was from the 6-hour debate. Unfortunately, the exact moment was not captured since it took place before the recording. Although, AY feelings towards this point is perfectly expressed at 1:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHAZn2a8YCA&t=1m50s
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Name The Trait ? More like #nameTheInference

Post by brimstoneSalad »

unethicalVegan wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:39 pmAlthough, AY feelings towards this point is perfectly expressed at 1:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHAZn2a8YCA&t=1m50s
Thanks, it's good to have that for reference.

The best defense Isaac could possibly muster is "this is an informal argument", but the claims he's making are not at all compatible with that assumption.

Everybody who isn't in Isaac's personality cult seems to understand how Name The Trait is not formally valid now, I'm thinking of doing some limited rewrites to the wiki to start it off with simpler arguments I've found useful 1:1, then probably moving on to Matt Dillahunty, since that's something worth addressing.
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