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Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:11 am
by bigbossomni
So I decided to take a break in my quest of understanding the vegan mindset for a bit which means not watching any of the " big" vegan youtubers and whatnot. Break lasted for about a month. Upon returning I see vegan stains has decided to attack the atheist experience show. I don't get how atheism and veganism connect yet gains finds a way to start drama for views. And he attacked Jean Gariepy whom is leagues ahead of him in civility and intelligence. They debated and gains lost..( of course most vegans won't agree with that) So I've come to the conclusion it seems to always be about tribalism with veganism. Is it simply an us vs them mentality? Because based off my experience here and in real life it seems to be so.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:27 am
by Lay Vegan
Dillahunty dismisses vegan ethics by drawing an arbitrary moral line at species. He excludes animals from the scope of moral concern based on this morally irrelevant difference. However, as someone who claims to be an advocate of secular/objective morality, his argument regarding veganism seems to boils down to subjective personal whim.

Vegan Gains’ failure to address this just highlights how little he knows about philosophy/morality. He acts incredibly pompous and obnoxious, calling out non vegans seemingly randomly, and picking fights with anyone and everyone. This reflects poorly on vegans. The sad part is, he could’ve made veganism a relevant discussion had he discussed how Matt’s arbitrary moral line is essentially an appeal to personal whim and contradicts his own view on objective morality.

Instead, this turned into “someone said something bad about veganism so it’s time for me to ‘murk’ them.”

I think VG and Ask Yourself have their hearts in the right place, but they also have massive egos, and their bahvior is really quite obnoxious. And don’t worry, they’re pretty good at alienating/disrespecting fellow vegans too. AY’s train wreck of a discusssion with Philosophical Vegan a while back is a good example of that. AY’s also blocked me from his discord without explanation and talked poorly about me on YouTube Live, so I feel where you non vegans are coming from ;)

They’re both incredibly smart (probably a lot smarter than I am) but a little humility and self-control wouldn’t harm anyone.

Not all vegans are dogmatic tribalists. Why do you think this forum exists? To stimulate conversation between vegans and non vegans alike. Don’t let a handful of “us vs them” vegans on YouTube influence your opinion of the greater vegan community.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:37 pm
by ESP.ION.AGE
"Tribalism" is not a thing. Even if it was, it wouldn't apply, since there's a ton of vegan on vegan drama on YouTube. Your post is extremely farcical. You say the following: "They debated and gains lost..( of course most vegans won't agree with that)". How can you whine about vegan tribalism when you exhibit exactly the behavior that you reproach them? Plus, Dillahunty is clearly not used to debating this subject, he made several mistakes; you've obviously taken the side of the meat eater to defend your own bias.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:40 am
by bigbossomni
lay vegan sorry but you are calling the kettle black right on your first sentence. All vegans draw a arbitrary line as to what species are ok to kill for food. I don't see vegans upset over all the various animals that die for the crops they eat. Vegans seem to claim that morality is subjective but it is always objectively wrong and needless for animals to die for our food or benefit. You are the only decent one on this forum. But i disagree that this forum is about an open discussion because other than you no one else has been open, tolerate or polite. The rest of the fellows I've interacted on this forum are giving your movement a bad name. So on behalf of us vile non vegans. Thanks for being a decent chap lay vegan.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:41 am
by bigbossomni
Esp. So me having an opinion is tribalism? you are just proving my point kid. I have no bias. Again thanks for proving me right again

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:39 pm
by Lay Vegan
bigbossomni wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:40 am
lay vegan sorry but you are calling the kettle black right on your first sentence. All vegans draw a arbitrary line as to what species are ok to kill for food. I don't see vegans upset over all the various animals that die for the crops they eat.
Incorrect. Vegans draw the moral line at sentience, which is the ability to experience reality subjectively. This is the only morally relevant distinction, or trait. Species, in regard to moral consideration, would be as arbitrary as skin color or bipedalism. It says nothing on one's subjective experience or ability to suffer.

bigbossomni wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:40 am
Vegans seem to claim that morality is subjective but it is always objectively wrong and needless for animals to die for our food or benefit.
Great point. I've recently changed my mind about subjective morality. Objective moral truths cannot exist if morality is subjective, because objective truths must correspond with reality (outside of subjective experience). When morality is reduced to person whim, like ice cream preferences, decisions are always based on self-interest. People exchange "what is good" for "what feels good," or "what is convenient?" Vegan Gains seems to be of this mindset, as he considers morality to be a "useful evolutionary trait."
bigbossomni wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:40 am
You are the only decent one on this forum. But i disagree that this forum is about an open discussion because other than you no one else has been open, tolerate or polite. The rest of the fellows I've interacted on this forum are giving your movement a bad name. So on behalf of us vile non vegans. Thanks for being a decent chap lay vegan.
Sounds like a bit of projection. From what I've seen, your threads have stimulated some great conversation on the forum. People are more than willing to engage with you, but you seem to be a bit sensitive. Let's toss the assertions aside and have a discussion.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:06 am
by McLovin
Lay Vegan wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:39 pm
Incorrect. Vegans draw the moral line at sentience
Vegans draw the line, or it is the line?

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:59 pm
by Lay Vegan
McLovin wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:06 am
Vegans draw the line, or it is the line?
Sentience is the only morally relevant trait in regard to moral consideration. One’s ability to suffer is contingent on one’s experience subjective reality.

The line is drawn at sentience.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:12 pm
by McLovin
Lay Vegan

I am sure you believe that, but that is not what I asked.

Re: Why do so many look up to vegan gains and ask yourself?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:41 pm
by Lay Vegan
McLovin wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:12 pm
Lay Vegan

I am sure you believe that, but that is not what I asked.
Vegans draw the line at sentience, which is the only morally relevant trait in regard to moral consideration.