Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

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Noura
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Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Noura »

I consider myself an ethical vegan, I’ve heard about freeganism a while back and that made me think about my food choices. For example, I don’t ask for a replacement when a barista puts cows milk instead of soy in my coffee because it’s going to waste and the harm has been done, same thing for cheese on my pizza etc. I used to not eat food that was cooked in the same oil or pan as meat is but I don’t see how that could cause more harm to the animals or the environment now that I think about it, I was googling if Panda Express had vegan options once and I remember deciding not to eat from them because all the vegan websites said there’s nothing vegan there due to them cooking meat and veggies in the same place/pan. What about leftovers? None of my family members are vegan and they always have non vegan leftovers I haven’t eaten anything yet because it doesn’t feel right to me for some reason. The gist of it is I’m interested to know where you -as a vegan- draw the line? And what you think of the examples I just mentioned and wether you disagree with it or not.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by brimstoneSalad »

If somebody messes up your order, you should at least let them know so they don't do it again. And maybe don't leave a tip.

If you really want to drive the point home, you can say something like, "I'm going to eat this because I don't want to waste food (or that it's against your religion to waste food), but I will never eat here again".
You might get a free meal out of it as an apology, then you could give the food to a homeless person (if there are any), or to a family member who may eat it and it could displace other non-vegan food the person may have bought and eaten instead.

Noura wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:30 pmI was googling if Panda Express had vegan options once and I remember deciding not to eat from them because all the vegan websites said there’s nothing vegan there due to them cooking meat and veggies in the same place/pan.
I think it's because they put chicken broth in everything, including the rice.
Noura wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:30 pmWhat about leftovers? None of my family members are vegan and they always have non vegan leftovers I haven’t eaten anything yet because it doesn’t feel right to me for some reason.
If there is any possibility whatsoever of them eating them, you should not eat them.

If there is any possibility of them knowing that you ate them and thus being influenced (even slightly) to buy more food so that you'd have non-vegan leftovers to eat, then you shouldn't eat them.

I generally say it's not safe to eat anything from family or friends, since they will very likely be biased to over-purchase in the future to leave extra for you.

The best thing to do is give it to somebody in need.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!
Deva
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Deva »

Its a grey area for me, as well. I know that ideally, to do everything in my power to minimize harm to animals, I would have to abstain from eating leftovers when there's any chance they could still be eaten by someone else.

But, I don't do that completely. Savory things and meat are fairly unappealing to me, so I just about always leave them alone. But when it comes to sweets, I am a little less careful. Since I know that the people around me will probably eat whatever is there and will over-eat anyways, and me having a small amount won't make a difference in terms of how much of the junk food will end up being consumed.

Also, when I'm in a stressful environment, I tend to consume food just to cope, and in times like those, my ethics do tend to matter less to me. I also know that by being vegan, we are not actually saving very many animals. We are actually decreasing demand for them to be bred into existence to live (often painful) lives and be killed unnecessarily.

As for restaurants, I was at a restaurant recently, and specified that I wanted no cheese on my meal, but it came with cheese on it. Of course it wasn't as though the cook had purposefully messed up my order. Having had a job preparing food before, I know how impossible it can be to remember the details of every order. Human error comes into it, and it won't do any good to complain excessively. People are just doing their jobs (often in a very fast-paced and demanding environment).

Re-ordering my food would have been ideal, but they were super busy, so I thought it wasn't such a good idea in that particular case. I just picked off as much cheese as I could.

We do live in a non-vegan world, so wherever you draw the line is what works in your situation. I think its important to be okay with wherever you are at.
Noura
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Noura »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:58 pm If somebody messes up your order, you should at least let them know so they don't do it again. And maybe don't leave a tip.

If you really want to drive the point home, you can say something like, "I'm going to eat this because I don't want to waste food (or that it's against your religion to waste food), but I will never eat here again".
You might get a free meal out of it as an apology, then you could give the food to a homeless person (if there are any), or to a family member who may eat it and it could displace other non-vegan food the person may have bought and eaten instead.

Noura wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:30 pmI was googling if Panda Express had vegan options once and I remember deciding not to eat from them because all the vegan websites said there’s nothing vegan there due to them cooking meat and veggies in the same place/pan.
I think it's because they put chicken broth in everything, including the rice.
Noura wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:30 pmWhat about leftovers? None of my family members are vegan and they always have non vegan leftovers I haven’t eaten anything yet because it doesn’t feel right to me for some reason.
If there is any possibility whatsoever of them eating them, you should not eat them.

If there is any possibility of them knowing that you ate them and thus being influenced (even slightly) to buy more food so that you'd have non-vegan leftovers to eat, then you shouldn't eat them.

I generally say it's not safe to eat anything from family or friends, since they will very likely be biased to over-purchase in the future to leave extra for you.

The best thing to do is give it to somebody in need.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!
Yes I definitely point out that my order wasn’t right, but I don’t know how I feel about not tipping because I know they didn’t intentionally do it. I will however accept their offer for a free meal next time, it never really crossed my mind that I could give it to someone else good idea!

Yeah not sure about the Panda Express situation since it was a long time ago, will look into it though.

You are definitely right about family being influenced/ over-buying never really thought of it from that aspect but I could see it happening.

Thank you for welcoming me your reply was very helpful.
Noura
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Noura »

Deva wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:19 am Its a grey area for me, as well. I know that ideally, to do everything in my power to minimize harm to animals, I would have to abstain from eating leftovers when there's any chance they could still be eaten by someone else.

But, I don't do that completely. Savory things and meat are fairly unappealing to me, so I just about always leave them alone. But when it comes to sweets, I am a little less careful. Since I know that the people around me will probably eat whatever is there and will over-eat anyways, and me having a small amount won't make a difference in terms of how much of the junk food will end up being consumed.

Also, when I'm in a stressful environment, I tend to consume food just to cope, and in times like those, my ethics do tend to matter less to me. I also know that by being vegan, we are not actually saving very many animals. We are actually decreasing demand for them to be bred into existence to live (often painful) lives and be killed unnecessarily.

As for restaurants, I was at a restaurant recently, and specified that I wanted no cheese on my meal, but it came with cheese on it. Of course it wasn't as though the cook had purposefully messed up my order. Having had a job preparing food before, I know how impossible it can be to remember the details of every order. Human error comes into it, and it won't do any good to complain excessively. People are just doing their jobs (often in a very fast-paced and demanding environment).

Re-ordering my food would have been ideal, but they were super busy, so I thought it wasn't such a good idea in that particular case. I just picked off as much cheese as I could.

We do live in a non-vegan world, so wherever you draw the line is what works in your situation. I think its important to be okay with wherever you are at.
I have social anxiety and it has substantially increased ever since I went Veg, I live in a very family-oriented culture who can’t comprehend the idea of veganism, also declining food that is offered to me is considered rude. It’s hard because doing either of the two stresses me out and I too ignore my ethics sometimes in these situations.
Why do you pick out the cheese in your pizza? I don’t see how it could increase the demand on animal products.
Take5
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Take5 »

My mantra used to be 'No animal should die so that I can live." So when my wife was about to throw away eggs that had gone fast their sell-by date, I would step in and eat them, since I abhor waste. There were also a couple of cooked chicken breasts that were about to be thrown away in a care home I used to visit - so I ate these, as well.

However, shortly after, I noticed my osteoarthritis (which had been in remission since about 6 months after becoming vegan) was flaring up again. My finger joints are somewhat twisted and I have a nodule on my thumb, but everything had settled down, and I've been totally pain free for a decade or more. Shortly after eating the eggs and the chicken breasts, the nodule became red and inflamed, and seemed to increase in size. It was also somewhat tender to touch.

It took about 4 weeks for my hands to return to normal, and I'm not about to repeat that - ever. Since then I'm up to speed on nutritionfacts.org, etc, and I'm full aware of the dangers of eating animal products.
Jamie in Chile
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Jamie in Chile »

If you send it back, you risk damaging the appeal of veganism by seeming over radical and unpleasant (epecially if you use the "never come here again" phrasing suggested above; I think that could be better put), especially if it something like the type of milk in a coffee. However for every person that does this, it will likely reduce such errors in the future.

If you accept it, however, you legitimize the error and make it more likely in the future. The good side is that you make vegans look less radical. To drive home this point you could even tell them about the error but in a very pleasant way and insist they don't replace it and say it doesn't matter?

It is a grey area. If I were served meat instead of a veggie burger, I would send it back, but a small amount of cheese or an egg on a salad I pick it off and don't say anything because that usually happened to me in places with no vegan options where I already had to go slightly off menu or ask them to do the salad without chicken or something and it would have made us looked back had I complained about the small amount of cheese which I didn't care about much, it's just a tiny bit annoying.

I once ordered a pizza without cheese and it came with cheese. I ate it, but I think such a thing is a case by case basis, personal preference. One thing to consider: if you send it back, you are causing a whole pizza to almost certainly be thrown in the bin which is doubling the carbon emissions and other environmental and resource impact of the meal. So one approach might be to eat it but ask them not to do it again and if it ever happens a second time just never eat there again.

I also think be aware of where you are - challenging the type of milk you got in a Starbucks in a trendy hipster liberal area of a Californian city is probably accepted, even expected, by the staff, but doing it as a rich tourist in a family restaurant in a poor country is probably not very nice and not developing good inter-country relations.

I think, over time, as veganism becomes more accepted and mainstream, it will make more sense to completely reject small amounts of animal products. For now, I would tread more carefully as we try to bring veganism to a wider audience.

Personally speaking, I decided to draw a very strict line with meat because I think it will help to promote vegetarianism/veganism if I can say I never have eaten it once for x years rather than a leftover story, and because it's easier to avoid meat 100% than dairy, and because it's someone more distasteful to eat some pieces of a person's dead body. However, with dairy I just settled for reducing my consumption of it by >>90% and maybe 99%. I have intercepted some products with cheese a few seconds before they were about to hit the dumpster very very occassionally, but I wouldn't do the same with meat personally.
Deva
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by Deva »

Noura wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:01 pm
I have social anxiety and it has substantially increased ever since I went Veg, I live in a very family-oriented culture who can’t comprehend the idea of veganism, also declining food that is offered to me is considered rude. It’s hard because doing either of the two stresses me out and I too ignore my ethics sometimes in these situations.
Why do you pick out the cheese in your pizza? I don’t see how it could increase the demand on animal products.
I have some amount of social anxiety as well, I know that can make communicating to others quite difficult at times, especially about controversial topics such as veganism.

My only idea of what I might do in your situation (at least how I imagine it), is to explain why I am vegan and what foods I am trying to avoid. Maybe you could even let them know that its just very important to you and you don't want it to come across disrespectful.

Also, its okay if you tried to be polite, but someone was still a little offended or thought you were rude. You were just doing what you believed to be good, and that's important.

But at the end of the day, its impossible to be perfect. If you have to skimp a little bit on your ethics and you just aren't feeling the passion or centered enough to stand up for your beliefs all the time, then that's where you're at and I think that is okay.

I picked the cheese off my food because its not healthy, and I don't like the taste of it. And I know where it comes from. Just not appetizing to me at this point, although there have been times I've eaten cheese instead of picking it off. It didn't really decrease the demand for animal products, except maybe by some minuscule amount, since I just gave it to someone I was there with. Sending it back when the restaurant was that busy seemed unlikely to help them get it right in the future since they are probably overwhelmed with the amount of orders coming through.
sykkelmannen
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by sykkelmannen »

The restaurant dilemma I would deal with as follows:
If I figured it out before I touched the plate, I'd ask if they can serve that plate to someone else. If yes, good. If they say it's going to waste I'd offer to eat it for free (or take away and give to someone) and give them another chance next time. Eating it and paying is like accepting a non-vegan leftover meal from a family member: they will keep offering in the future no matter what you say as long as you will eat. Rejecting leftovers within the family circle is a heartbreaking business as you will probably witness that food go to the bin, and yet you must not eat it because you would enter the vicious circle described by BrimstoneSalad. It is a great idea to pack it and give to someone in need. However, if you live in a rich country overflowing with food leftovers like I do, finding a person interested in your homemade leftovers might be quite a challenge if not an impossibility. And then what? :)

Messing up orders is not an excuse. It is what makes the difference between a good restaurant and a bad one. Encouraging a bad restautant by overlooking its blunders will make it worse.

OT: vegans should prioritize pure vegan restaurants. They actually need and deserve that support. I would never desire to spend money in a place where non-vegan food is used for profits.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Eating non-vegan food that’s going to waste

Post by brimstoneSalad »

sykkelmannen wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:31 pm The restaurant dilemma I would deal with as follows:
If I figured it out before I touched the plate, I'd ask if they can serve that plate to someone else. If yes, good. If they say it's going to waste I'd offer to eat it for free (or take away and give to someone) and give them another chance next time.
That's a great approach, if they accept it. It might be better to give them another chance this time and take it to go to give away, then they at least know they'll get paid today (if they can get it right). It might make them more likely to accept giving you the mess-up for free.

What would you do if they said you have to pay for it if you eat it/take it?
Would you take it anyway and just not pay for it?
sykkelmannen wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:31 pmOT: vegans should prioritize pure vegan restaurants. They actually need and deserve that support. I would never desire to spend money in a place where non-vegan food is used for profits.
That's what I do, although I'm also happy to support vegetarian restaurants with a wide array of vegan options. Although I mostly eat at home.

However, I think it's worth making exceptions for very vegan-friendly restaurants that have vegan menu items that are clearly labeled as vegan. Ordering off the menu is pretty safe; mess-ups come most often when you modify something.

Of course, not all people have that option.
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