Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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brimstoneSalad wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:47 am it's more "live and let kill" since they aren't letting animals live.
Exactly!

The only reason to be tolerant is to pick our battles, for the best ultimate outcome. I am trying to balance it, being the only one here can be intimidating.
Friday night at a party my 12-year-old daughter and I were eating, most of the time nobody notices what is on your plate. But someone noticed my daughters plate and said loudly, "You dont eat meat??" And she said she did not. He glared at her and looked her up and down, and also glared at me, like I must be a bad mother. She said to me, I see why you try to hide it. Then some other people engaged in a discussion of what is vegetarianism versus veganism, which I did not participate, feeling very uncomfortable since they were being so derisive. For instance someone pointed out that tumbleweeds move therefore vegansim is a fraud.
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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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It occurs to me that the people who raise animals here are never the ones who kill them.

Yesterday I visited the place where I put a mare to train.
They have many farm animals there. Now they acquired six male calves from a dairy farm.
They are feeding them three to a milk cow, they milk her then they feed them with bottles. The young hand said the dairy farms sell them at two days old. I asked him what the owners intention is, are they going to fatten them up and them sell for slaughter? He seemed disturbed by the question and said he did not know.
Then he let me feed them, which was quite a moving experience. He gave each of them a name, usually after characters in TV shows. One of them, Damien, I really thought was so cute I want to adopt him and keep him in my farm for the rest of his natural life. But I havent even really started my farm.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Dsalles wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:34 am Friday night at a party my 12-year-old daughter and I were eating, most of the time nobody notices what is on your plate. But someone noticed my daughters plate and said loudly, "You dont eat meat??" And she said she did not. He glared at her and looked her up and down, and also glared at me, like I must be a bad mother. She said to me, I see why you try to hide it.
Wow, that seems incredibly hostile. I hope you'll be able to find some better people there for a local support network.

Your daughter was born in the U.S. or there?
Dsalles wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:34 amFor instance someone pointed out that tumbleweeds move therefore vegansim is a fraud.
:shock: That might be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard.
Do they really not know that tumbleweeds are blown around by the wind and have no minds, or were they just trying to be funny?
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Dsalles wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:41 am It occurs to me that the people who raise animals here are never the ones who kill them.
That seems to happen a lot. Separate the different stages and each person can consider his or herself without guilt. The elective ignorance is pretty amazing.
Dsalles wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:41 amOne of them, Damien, I really thought was so cute I want to adopt him and keep him in my farm for the rest of his natural life. But I havent even really started my farm.
Try to stay strong and resist the temptation, you have a lot to do still. I'm not sure if you would have had to buy this calf, but there will probably come an opportunity to adopt one without the cow being paid for by somebody.

Just thought I'd mention that it's a bad idea to buy people out of slavery, and the same for animals. Even if the animal is a gift from a farmer (the payment is happening somewhere).
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david84
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Hi, I've enjoyed reading this thread. Wish you all the luck on your journey. Patience is a virtue :)
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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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brimstoneSalad wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:05 pm Just thought I'd mention that it's a bad idea to buy people out of slavery, and the same for animals. Even if the animal is a gift from a farmer (the payment is happening somewhere).
That analogy did occur to me. And you are right there are tons of opportunities to rescue animals without supporting the industry.

On the other hand, there was an abolitionist movement that did purchase slaves, who individually benefitted from it. And those individuals did help end slavery just by their presence in non-slave society.

There are ostrich farms not too far away, and I am soooo tempted to buy one. Imagine an ostrich for a pet!
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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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brimstoneSalad wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:54 pm

Wow, that seems incredibly hostile. I hope you'll be able to find some better people there for a local support network.

Your daughter was born in the U.S. or there?

My daughter was born in the US and moved here to Brazil with me a little over a year ago.

The party was thrown by a woman who has been very nice and helpful to me. And at another of her parties I met the 70-year-old vegetarian. They exist even among these people. But they just dont know the hostility we vegetarians face. It irritates me when people say it loudly, and mention it every time I am introduced. I just want to be stealth sometimes.
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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Thank you, David!
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Dsalles wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 pm On the other hand, there was an abolitionist movement that did purchase slaves, who individually benefitted from it. And those individuals did help end slavery just by their presence in non-slave society.
I think that only works when people have had virtually no exposure.

Even if purchased, Esther the Wonder Pig could have still done a lot of good, but I think that principle only works with low hanging fruit. Once we have some examples people are exposed to, it probably has much less effect.
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Dsalles
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Re: Adventures in trying to convert a cattle ranch

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Here, like many rustic places, people do keep a lot of farm animals as pets, that is a longstanding tradition. Like Mocha the retired milkcow, they all make great pets of course, being so heartbreakingly docile and sweet.

Just wanted to clarify that such pets are of course taken care of for their entire natural lives.
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