Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Vegan message board for support on vegan related issues and questions.
Topics include philosophy, activism, effective altruism, plant-based nutrition, and diet advice/discussion whether high carb, low carb (eco atkins/vegan keto) or anything in between.
Meat eater vs. Vegan debate welcome, but please keep it within debate topics.
User avatar
NonZeroSum
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum »

---

Got some more answers from Liam Anthony, Reg, ModVegan, Tim Jong Un, Chris Hines and Banana Warrior Princess.

So the tally of channels I know about is:

For

Vegan Gains
Unnatural Vegan
ModVegan
Tim Jong Un
Philosophical Vegan
Activist Journeys

Not vegan, but ok:

LayVegan

Against:

Liam Anthony
Gary Francione
a-bas-le-ciel
Chris Hines
Banana Warrior Princess
FootSoldier
Jack Green

Not sure:

Reg Flowers
A privileged vegan - 99% sure yes, but should ask as thrown into doubt by Reg's misunderstandings about food not bombs history


____________

Liam Anthony

Liam directed me to some comments of his on the Footsoldier video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tZGBa0x4I&t=1089s

Liam Anthony
For the people who don't realize there are two parts to the vegan society's definition.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

There are many ways to embrace vegan living. Yet one thing all vegans have in common is a plant-based diet avoiding all animal foods such as meat (including fish, shellfish and insects), dairy, eggs and honey - as well as products like leather and any tested on animals.

Footsoldier
yeah sure, that is the logical dietary conclusion of the primary statement written out, however UV and freegans think they can add an asterisk because the victim was already murdered.

TheNewHope
yet i have to disagree a bit "avoiding all animal foods" is still overruled by "as far as is possible and practicable" if one eats roadkill (which i don't consider a food) in a survival situation where you had no other choice then you would still be vegan.

This situation will probably never happen to us but in theory i would consider someone vegan to eat a dead animal that died by accident if it was life or death situation for him.

Liam Anthony
Objectively speaking. By any definition. Vegan Society, dictionary, or colloquial. A vegan is someone who does not knowingly consume animal products. This is objective.

People throw around the vegan society definition of veganism but forget the second half. Seriously, check out their website.

It is NOT IMMORAL to eat road kill etc... But it isnt vegan. Vegans do not view animals as products for consumption dead or alive. This is a VALUE that is unique to the vegan in-group. And the practice of abstaining from animal products in any context is the identifier someone is vegan. its a baseline.

Vegan values are in line with a reduce harm approach, which is a "more moral" life style but adds the additional axiom of not knowingly consuming animal products.
So, yes. someone could have a highly specialized diet that includes road kill and trash, and the potential amount of "harm points" associated with their diet could be less than a typical vegan diet.

but based on every definition of veganism. Vegan Society, Dictionary, and colloquial. Vegans abstain from consuming animal products IN ADDITION to living a lifestyle that reduces harm.

Liam Anthony
also, in an extreme survival situation. ethics, principles, morality, values, etc.... isn't typically someone's main concern. And I am assuming that if they made it through that EXTREME situation they would go back to being a vegan. and I wouldn't hold it against them.

Footsoldier
I'd also add that the desert island scenaro may be consistent in a human context: if you are stranded on an island with no other food and there is an old man with you who is almost dead anyway, you have two choices:

- kill him and eat him and fuck morals
- don't eat him and all die and keep your morals

this applies in a human or animal context because it is survival. Meat eaters cannot argue from this perspective though because the are generally not in a survival context.

Liam Anthony
I really like how you used counter culture to describe veganism. First time I've heard it explained like that.

_______________

Reg Flowers

I'm LIVE on YouNow December 17, 2017
https://youtu.be/VJgcuhXAVpU?t=59m57s

Me: I'm making my first video and the topic is freeganism so asking youtubers whether [or not (they read it wrong to fatal miscommunication results] they would eat waste animal products would they consider it moral?

Reg: Yeah I'm like I don’t feel like I want to, if you're asking because you want to know what I think me personally I feel like anytime I present flesh from an animal or a product that came from an animal as food I'm buying into and promoting maintaining an attitude that animals are objects right so yeah I just I don't want to it's to me I don't see that as that's not it's not a question of like whether it's it's moral to eat it or not moral to eat it it's to me it is not food it's not food so why would I wouldn't eat it any more than if you know a person fell dead in front of me I didn't kill them it would be edible if I cooked it what I do it what I do it I wouldn't do it because I not see a human being s food so however if someone brought me a glass of breast milk that I might you know I might consume that because I at least that's food right that's fruit it's a foodstuff it's intended to be consumed right so I don't know I don't know about the whole freaking thing

Me: whether or not they eat animals themselves, like Food Not Bombs tabeling rescued food

Reg: now I'm a big fan of Food Not Bombs and I don't know cos are you part of Food Not Bombs Food Not Bombs at least in Detroit and the group that I'm familiar with they I think because they want to provide food that most people that that isn't alienating they lean towards products that are vegan and in my experience at least the group of Food Not Bombs that I was working with I have worked with and the Food Not Bombs that provided food to the to last year's pedagogy and theater of the oppressed conference all of that food was vegan but they they will often include things like bread even if that bread has like trace milk products in it so that's not you know I've I've not known of a Food Not Bombs meal that contained animal flesh however and like I said the experience I have with Food Not Bombs the event that they were catering for us was the event that they were catering for us was was vegan so listen you know I'm looking down at my phone and I'm seeing that it's ringing and I think I want to grab this call I'm not gonna actually grab it but I'm gonna call this person right back at someone calling me from Detroit probably looking for me to return so all of that said it's been great hanging out with all of you today it's been an interesting it's been an interesting live stream I bet this is gonna get I feel like this was gonna this one's gonna get a lot of views

Me: Yes vegan or vegetarian in the mandate website the founder of it came up with the term freegan

Reg: yeah I mean I think I think it's definitely worth having a conversation about

_________

ModVegan

Freeganism with ModVegan
https://youtu.be/rrQSOCMyK9o?t=40m35s

What's your thoughts on eating plant-based foods that are fried or cooked with animal products for removing say cheese from a pasta salad and then eating the pasta

well I know this is very controversial but for me personally I think that it just depends on you as a person I think that it's about such that you don't want to obviously advertise animal products I certainly um I think that it's important to like if someone's serving an animal product and you eat it because it's there I think that's a really hard argument to make that you're doing something good for veganism by doing that I think that's a very hard argument to make that it's but it's a super good thing to do that but for the example the other day my husband ordered a vegan burger and they brought it and she was annoying cuz restaurant goes all the time and we usually send it back this time you just peeled it off and ate it because you didn't want to just throw away the burger so you know otherwise speaking so he doesn't mind if it touches his food I couldn't do that because I'm really lactose intolerant so I wouldn't be able to eat it anyway we need music I think it depends on the person you know if you can just take it off do that I don't really believe in wasting food I think if you can see from wasting food that's a good thing and you have to kind of judge the person you're working with to like sometimes if you're talking to someone and you know it's going to especially if you're at someone's house Bikram made something for you and it's got cheese on it and you can easily take it off it'll be way less offended if you just take it off and if you like tell them to pick it back you know use your common sense and your do what's right for you for your health and and as far as the oil goes again I think that's a personal issue I think it has more do with your your disgust response I personally am okay with it I don't think that it's hurting any extra animals so I have no problem with it like I ordered a burger and fries the other day a company here in town started their a burger place I think it's called like flame burger or something and they just added a vegan burger with a vegan bun and the fries are or no it's the burger with cooked on the same grill that's with the other burgers but I was like you know it's okay because I'm telling them that this is an important thing and I'm encouraging them to make more of it I think Gary Yourofsky has a similar stance on those kinds of things weed stuff when I can but I'm not gonna be too fussy on it you know like I said for cooking someone on the the same grill um I have like a couple specs or something I mean this yeah it's not - I mean you you want to encourage them to keep doing a vegan product I mean yeah you can make the suggestion oh maybe you could do this but I mean yeah yeah I think you know you want to encourage them you know if you if you've got to be a good kind of example of a vegan as well if you go in there and just be nice and polite and stuff and you know you kind of respect the fact that they're trying I think that's a really good thing to do yeah I think you know we need to help them help us kind of you know yeah I think is the main thing

_______

Ethologic (Tim)

Love this answer by Ethologic on Freeganism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eMF8LNpSMw

Banana Warrior Princess:
Vegan/freegan, oh god that unnatural vegan video, it was really I think I don't like freeganism I just don’t get it, I understand the arguments for it but . . .

I understand freegan to mean that you dumpster dive for things and it's got meat or dairy or eggs in it you can have it because you're not paying for it so you're not contributing to the industry that's how I how I understand freegan.

I still don't agree I mean I understand that you're not contributing this stuff but you're still kind of saying or promoting the fact that you're complicit with their death because you wouldn't even eat a sandwich with dogs meat or anything in it so why would

Chris Hines:
Yeah we had this conversation the other day didn't we and I said like as much as eating animal products that are free is you know isn't acceptable in the way that you're not paying for the enemy if you are eating them around people you're still promoting the fact that animals of food that say well it's no evidence to say that they'll say that there's no evidence to say that and why are you eating that food it promotes the use of their quality system is not there's no evidence to say that it will increase sales of meat doesn't work for the vegan message because you know it doesn't try to decrease either

Banana Warrior Princess:
You just shouldn’t do it, yeah.

Chris Hines:
It still means that their food, it’s still saying animals are food, when we should be saying no animals are not food.

Tim:
So Liam makes a pretty good argument, so I get into this with him a lot because I'm pro-freeganism, I think it's, like I watch this documentary called Dive! and what this guy does with the food that he collects out of the dumpster deeds and to me it's like if you talk to people he seemed to not let me feed his family and then shelters with all the shit he collects when he's dumped her it's really amazing it's a 50 minute documentary totally worth watching. . .
So he's doing it's great, but Liam makes a really compelling argument and in that kinda what you're driving actress it's that um you wouldn't be fine with people eating corpses human corpses right they're dead so if you're dead you don't possess a body right you don't have a body because you're so the body becomes a sub without without the life, without life a subject becomes an object, would you guys agree with that, a corpse to me is not a person any more

Banana Warrior Princess:
But it still has meaning to somebody else.

Tim:
well I mean but if they're dead it just becomes animal matter at that point that's just the way I see if they're dead the person's gone the person for the person to be a present consciousness and life needs to exist so without those two things there's no person left and it becomes it goes from being a subject to an object

But even still even if even if we agree that's truth we would never agree that it's okay to eat corpses because they would normalize cannibal do cannibalism forget the health argument with normalize cannibalism so Liam's argument essentially becomes we shouldn't be normalizing eating roadkill or eating any animals no matter how we get it because you're normalizing it you're making you're saying it's okay to do this in our culture and you should never make a statement that it's okay to eat dead bodies.

So and and I I agree with him even though I do support people doing the freeganism thing because I'd rather not see all those animals just go into a dumpster when there's humans who are starving to death.

Like it's it's not a tenable choice it's certainly not the best situation to be in but you know if you watch this documentary I think you'll be more sympathetic to it because you see the fuckin amount of food this guy pulls out of dumpsters and it's all good food you're like holy shit all of this is just getting thrown into landfills well there's people starving to death.

A better solution would be to go dumpster diving, get all the meat, get all the vegan stuff, you keep the vegan stuff, send the meat to zoos.

______
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
Post Reply