Which is the best YouTube video to show to my omnivore friends

[brimstoneSalad]

Thinking of taking Dr Milton Mills 'Humans are herbivores' next time, as an appeal to logic. But any other suggestions will be very welcome.

Can you link me to what you mean? I'll check it out.

[Take5]

'Are humans designed (sic) to eat meat' by Dr Milton Mills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXj76A9hI-o&feature=youtu.be&list=LLZNy0fWoXkBgi-eLvrN0chw

[brimstoneSalad]

'Are humans designed (sic) to eat meat' by Dr Milton Mills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXj76A9hI-o&feature=youtu.be&list=LLZNy0fWoXkBgi-eLvrN0chw

I'd be careful with arguments like these. Some of them have limited validity, but there's also concern of false dichotomies (these features describe herbivores and carnivores which are very specialized, and there's a large excluded middle ground) and the fact that there are exceptions to these rules because diet can adapt faster than physiology (e.g. Red panda). It's true that exceptions are less common so if humans were pretty typical animals we could go with the odds on this one, but humans are pretty unique and particularly in this case we can't jump from clearly visible features to normative statements about ideal diet.

The best argument for health of a plant based diet is contemporary evidence (interventions, mechanistic evidence), not ancestry (the paleological record shows our ancestors ate meat as opportunists and sometimes hunters when necessary; it doesn't mean it was optimally healthy, but it promoted survival at certain points in human history when the alternative was malnutrition or starvation).

I'd skip this one personally.

[NonZeroSum]

We should have an introduction to veganism playlist on the channel also, so these 3 and I propose a few more:

Toward Rational, Authentic Food Choices | Melanie Joy | TEDxMünchen
TEDx Talks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0VrZPBskpg

Non-Human Animals: Crash Course Philosophy #42
CrashCourse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-BX-jN_Ac

The Truth About Dairy (+9 million views on FB)
James Aspey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YTNXbexCYA

-----

Don't care about animals? 5 reasons you should still go vegan
Unnatural Vegan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNugaxb9MQs

Debating the "I Don't Care" Mentality (Vegan Gains vs. Bearing)
à-bas-le-ciel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSfJO0y6V7s

To Sam Harris (& all new vegans): Vegan Nutrition Basics
Unnatural Vegan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID_2ymmvW5w

Humane Meat Does Not Exist
ModVegan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swVCvIQ9hZ4

______

70 subscribers, 30 away from our name in the channel url. Can I get username and password to the channel so can add playlist and ModVegan to the recommended list?

Thoughts on adding Mercy for Animals also?

[brimstoneSalad]

I made a playlist and added most of those.

Do we know much about Aspey? It he pragmatic, or does he have some bad content too?
Hesitant to link.
I know Eisel has some very anti-pragmatic content (even against in vitro meat and freeganism?), which is unfortunate because he has a lot of good videos.

[NonZeroSum]

Do we know much about Aspey? It he pragmatic, or does he have some bad content too?
Hesitant to link.

Think he's golden, totally inoffensive approach:

The Chef Isn't A Cold Hearted Bitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsQ0dB8-s0

I know Eisel has some very anti-pragmatic content (even against in vitro meat and freeganism?), which is unfortunate because he has a lot of good videos.

Sadly so about freeganism, I think it relates to his desire to build up the institutions and facilities of vegan community. That there is some negative virtue attached to consuming oysters knowing they may be sentient, to using waste animal products, adopting pets or wearing 2nd hand leather because it all perverts the maximum capabilities you can be achieving on your own, within your community’? And that dense wildlife habitat that can sustain the most life can be understood as something politically beautiful we project onto other animals whilst we carry on our separate societal evolution.

Veganism: Compassion, Contempt and Loathing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0atXI8Po4dk

#DOGGATE: An Analysis (Vegan Gains vs. Vegan Cheetah)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db2cDFu5Y1E
Towards the very end talks about dumpster diving, left some comments on ModVegan's video also about the subculture being laughable.

Vegan “Purity”: Collaborating with Hunters to save the hunted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IZdpdvqA58&t=102s
Talks about vegan definition being purely dietary either in or out. But political movement where could be soft cross-over with some hunters.

Nihilism If animals don’t have animal rights, why do humans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymzBmpsmjUw

I had a message in response to me, sent back saying more or less, this is a paraphrase, more or less quoting; “if humans have human rights, why would animals not have rights?” Thus saying I’m using a double standard or perhaps guilty of speciesism or what have you.
Now my perspective that question is just as absurd as saying if humans have poetry, why do animals not have poetry, so my claim here is not that human rights don’t exist, in some absolute ontological sense, I also would not claim that poetry doesn’t exist. However clearly when we’re talking about poetry, we’re talking about something creative and abstract and something that’s you know deeply couched in cultural and aesthetic considerations.

Whether or not something is poetry, I mean I can show you a poem translated from medieval Japanese into English, modern English, and you may ask yourself; Is this poetry? And I can show you Sanskrit poetry translated into English and you may wonder; Is this poetry? And I can show you even poetry of twentieth century poetry written in English in California in the 1960s and you may ask yourself; Is this poetry?
Whether or not something is poetry, whether or not you can recognize it as poetry, whether or not you can appreciate or enjoy it as poetry gets into a lot of tricky questions that are not based in a strict and simple sense on belief, right?

But if you ask me do animals have poetry? My answer is no. Poetry is part of human society and we may write poems for or about animals, we may project poetic qualities unto animals in our works of art, we may you know depict them in a poetic way, we may in a sense have animal poetry within human culture, but this is so to speak a set of abstract and largely aesthetic values human beings have created.
And likewise when we talk about rights, human rights, partly what we’re talking about is a very simple legal idea, I mentioned that in an earlier video, do you or do you not have the right to drink alcohol in a public park, in some countries you do and some you don’t, so that’s the difference between England and Canada, you know do you or do you not have the right to drive a car under these circumstances, those circumstances, it’s different.

And partly it’s a very simple cut-and-dry legal issue, but we all know to a large extent, the reason why people get so emotional about, the reason why people get so passionate about human rights is that it also gets into this realm of aesthetic, poetic and indeed ultimately ethical issues, this is why people you know become so animated about rights and why some people find it convincing or moving to state the case for veganism in terms of animal rights or in terms of human rights, trying to say this this is an extension of the anti-slavery crusade at least.

[brimstoneSalad]

Good to hear about Aspey. Is he solid on empirical facts too? Do you think we could contact him and invite him to the forum, or is he too popular to plausibly contact?

What do you think are the odds of us changing Eisel's mind on freeganism and in vitro meat?

[NonZeroSum]

Good to hear about Aspey. Is he solid on empirical facts too? Do you think we could contact him and invite him to the forum, or is he too popular to plausibly contact?

Im pretty sure he is from few videos I watched. I'd try it, might be a case of not seeing it or responding right away, leaving a few comments around the place engaging with their content.

What do you think are the odds of us changing Eisel's mind on freeganism and in vitro meat?

It's possible, would probably admit to real world examples of charities cooking up going out of date donated animal products that help as a stop gap to future ideal vegan society. But some negative moral virtue to taking part in that if you know the industry and there's even the slightest chance you could avoid doing it and not starve. I don't know his stance on in-vitro meat.

Just messaged him.