Nutrients of Concern in progress

[Jebus]

Nutritionfacts has some really good info (although a little more skepticism needs to be taken for that info).

And Greger definitely does (even big ones).

Please start a new thread on that when you get a chance.

[brimstoneSalad]

Jebus: The big ones are the 2% gambit and Greger's stuff against artificial sweeteners. I think there may have been a couple other smaller ones, but I can't remember them at the moment.

I am thinking about the editing but I'm not convinced I know quite enough yet. I think I could do the critiquing which is actually easier than the writing probably.

Sure!

Also, I'd be concerned we could both spend hours and hours on it and then have only 20 or 30 people ever read all the site. Could you just write a few pages, and then find a way to tracker visitor stats, and then make sure you get 50 or 100 page reads before you go on and do more. I want to advocate in the most effective way.

That's a reasonable concern. We are on the first page results for "vegan forum" and this forum gets a fair amount of traffic despite not being nearly as good a resource (or I think indexed as well) as a Wiki.

More people than that will probably read the pages based on the thread views we have here. People will also share the wiki links more because they're easier to follow than a jumble of forum threads.

I'd love to install a unique visitor counter, but I'm not sure if there's an extension for that.

I have to create a separate account for the wiki, by the look at it.

Yep, I just have to authorize you for editing. Just let me know your username.
Or another user can authorize you, I think. You can also ask NonZeroSum if I'm not online.

If you like I'll have a go at (any or all of the below, let me know which and I can start next week if I have time, not promising anything)
Arguments for Veganism (suggest about 500-2,000 words)
Speciesism (suggest about 500-2,000 words)
Dining Out (suggest about 400-1,000 words)
All the Arguments Against (presumably meaning arguments against veganism) (suggest about 1,000-3,000 words) If you want a long list of 50 arguments I'm not going to do that, but I can highlight 10-15 of the most common? A lot of the others are just variants of those 10-15 or are just dumb.

Awesome!
"Arguments for Veganism" or "All the Arguments Against" would be a good ones to start on I think. Or maybe just do a little on both of those? Even fleshing out a skeleton or stub of the arguments is really useful.

[Jamie in Chile]

OK, I will start on those. Do you want me to send you some drafts first, or put the first draft directly on there and edit it live where people can see it?

All the Arguments Against I assume you would want responses to those from a vegan perspective.

I have signed up on the wiki with the same user name as here.

Let me know if you want to discuss my private message. If this conversation gets into a lot of back and forth between us, it may be boring for others. On the other hand, I suppose we are advertising the wiki, so let me know what you think is best.

[brimstoneSalad]

OK, I will start on those. Do you want me to send you some drafts first, or put the first draft directly on there and edit it live where people can see it?

Just posting them on the wiki would be fine. Maybe add something at the top about it being a draft.

All the Arguments Against I assume you would want responses to those from a vegan perspective.

Yes, I think so.
I'm wondering now if they should each have their own page, since the discussion could get pretty detailed on some?

Discussing on the forum is fine. Or even the wiki talk pages.

You have editing power now!

[Jamie in Chile]

If you like I'll have a go at (any or all of the below, let me know which and I can start next week if I have time, not promising anything)
Arguments for Veganism (suggest about 500-2,000 words)
Speciesism (suggest about 500-2,000 words)
Dining Out (suggest about 400-1,000 words)
All the Arguments Against (presumably meaning arguments against veganism) (suggest about 1,000-3,000 words) If you want a long list of 50 arguments I'm not going to do that, but I can highlight 10-15 of the most common? A lot of the others are just variants of those 10-15 or are just dumb.

Awesome!
"Arguments for Veganism" or "All the Arguments Against" would be a good ones to start on I think. Or maybe just do a little on both of those? Even fleshing out a skeleton or stub of the arguments is really useful.

I have done arguments for veganism (draft). Let me know what you think or edit yourself. Once we have finished the text, I might do sources.

Do you run the site (wiki+forum)? Do you own it (wiki+forum)? Are you the top wiki person? Who else is involved?

I have not started on All the Arguments Against. Let's first way to see what happens with the first one and if we are in agreement first with how things are going.

[brimstoneSalad]

I have done arguments for veganism (draft). Let me know what you think or edit yourself. Once we have finished the text, I might do sources.

Great! I added in some section formatting and a couple more topics. Moved one up. What do you think?

Do you run the site (wiki+forum)? Do you own it (wiki+forum)? Are you the top wiki person? Who else is involved?

Another member does the technical stuff and should have all admin powers but isn't currently active, and now everybody is chipping in for the hosting costs. I'm the only active admin on the forum and wiki, but I don't do anything except delete spammers on the forum and activate account when people miss the activation email.
We do things pretty democratically here with respect to core members/moderators.

NonZeroSum, Dr. Singer & Nightcell are also active on the Wiki.

Patreon contributions beyond the ~$20 a month for hosting go to giving me more time to work on the wiki (I'm working on it for around $3 an hour right now) so that it can be fleshed out more quickly. I was hesitant to start a patreon but people asked, and it's good to have regular content updates (other people will contribute here and there, but if I'm obligated to do it there will always be at least some updates and progress since this makes sure I will always have time for it and won't vanish for a couple months due to life and work stuff).

I have not started on All the Arguments Against. Let's first way to see what happens with the first one and if we are in agreement first with how things are going.

Sounds good!

[Jamie in Chile]

I have done arguments for veganism (draft). Let me know what you think or edit yourself. Once we have finished the text, I might do sources.

Great! I added in some section formatting and a couple more topics. Moved one up. What do you think?

That's fine, I have removed the numbers that I originally had that are now out of sync and not needed. How are you going to handle sources? Will we be able to show sources like annotated sentences or superscript numbers so that we can source the claims to specific sentences and paragraphs. That would be better, but trickier, than just having a longer list at the bottom, which would be easier.

[brimstoneSalad]

That's fine, I have removed the numbers that I originally had that are now out of sync and not needed. How are you going to handle sources? Will we be able to show sources like annotated sentences or superscript numbers so that we can source the claims to specific sentences and paragraphs. That would be better, but trickier, than just having a longer list at the bottom, which would be easier.

Thanks!

Sources:
Very important things can be quotes or screen captured, or video clips in the article.
Otherwise, we can link to them and they show up as small things like this: [1]

Just put the brackets around the link: [link]

[Jamie in Chile]

Some of my sources are books I've read or movies I've watched, so I cannot link to them. Can I put [1], without link, and at the bottom of the article, write

[1] name of book by name of author

And do you prefer a system where the references are all in chronological order even if means repeating them, for example:

Is is better:

Factory farms are known to keep the animals in small spaces [1], in poisonous air [2] and slaughter animals well before their natural life [3]

[1] Factory farming by John Smith
[2] Meat vs Veganism by Helen Smith
[3] Factory farming by John Smith

Or should that be written:

Factory farms are known to keep the animals in small spaces [1], in poisonous air [2] and slaughter animals well before their natural life [1]

[Jamie in Chile]

Likewise if there are multiple references to the same fact, let's say both books covered how animals were slaughtered at an early age, could I put

Factory farms are known to keep the animals in small spaces [1], in poisonous air [2] and slaughter animals well before their natural life [3]

[1] Factory farming by John Smith
[2] Meat vs Veganism by Helen Smith
[3] Meat vs Veganism by John Smith and Factory farming by John Smith

Or should it be

Factory farms are known to keep the animals in small spaces [1], in poisonous air [2] and slaughter animals well before their natural life [1,2]