Why is Ask Yourself so comfortable with antagonizing respectable vegan advocates?

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Lightningman_42
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Why is Ask Yourself so comfortable with antagonizing respectable vegan advocates?

Post by Lightningman_42 »

Ask Yourself recently challenged Unnatural Vegan to a debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ia-08B9DE

From 0:29 to 1:00, Unnatural Vegan briefly states her stance on the brimstoneSalad vs. Ask Yourself dispute, and then explains why she won't back up her claim that brimstoneSalad is right (and he's wrong).

It's rather shocking how arrogant and presumptuous he's become. Ask Yourself is not entitled to UV's time.
He is not in a reasonable position to argue that she should debate him on a certain topic, considering how outrageously rude he was when speaking to brimstoneSalad on that same topic. Ask Yourself has repeatedly thrown childish insults at brimstoneSalad like "retard", "moron", "thick-skull", and "this guy is so fucking rambly, it's unbelievable!"

Why would any self-respecting woman want to put with such insolence? UV clearly won't, as we can see in her last reply at 1:24 to 1:30, "You're wrong and I won't debate you. Being called retarded and constantly interrupted isn't really my thing."
Then, in response, Ask Yourself said, not wrote:OK well then don't be retarded, and don't go off point, and then we can have a cordial conversation. Swayze, come debate me, I have a channel, right here, and I await your response.
Yeah, fat chance of that happening. This guy's lack of self-awareness is really incredible. He suggests to her that he's a perfect judge of whether or not she's "retarded", and that because of this he's entitled to call her a retard whenever it suits him. Where are his manners? He has no clue how pompous he sounds.

Thought that was bad? Well it gets worse.
As he finished, Ask Yourself said, not wrote:If you're too scared, because you know that I'll decimate you like every single other person that I've ever debated, then make a video, take you're time. Do a fucking response in your style. I will go through it, point by point, and demonstrate that you are wrong. Uh, and if you're not gonna do either, then quit bitching at me on Twitter. That is all for today, till next time."
Slim to none chance of UV responding to someone with such an over-inflated ego.


So who's next on his chopping block? TheVeganAtheist? ThinkAboutThis?

I'd like to get ThinkAboutThis's insights on this whole brimstoneSalad vs. Ask Yourself feud. He's the only YouTuber I know of who is (probably) on good terms with both of them.
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil but because of those who look on and do nothing."
-Albert Einstein
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DarlBundren
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Re: Why is Ask Yourself so comfortable with antagonizing respectable vegan advocates?

Post by DarlBundren »

I'm certainly no expert on the whole youtube vegan community, but it's pretty disappointing that the few - as you say - respectable vegan advocates are so hostile with each other. Despite the fact that FreindEd was not able to come up with a single good argument, we all came off pretty bad. Did Brim and AY have any other discussion prior to the debate?

I do hope that Brim will eventually start a channel, by the way. I understand he's concerned about his privacy, but even that should be a cost-benefit analysis, right? And if he does, I hope he'll try to be as relaxed as UV is. (Amusingly enough, he sounded much more amicable live, than he does on the forum ;) )

We must face the fact that there are very few (mainstream) rational vegan advocates. I assumed that AY was one of those, but (regardless of whether he's right or not) he doesn't seem to be what we need. Or, at least, that's the impression that I got from that debate. Might have been a bad day for him...
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Commissaris
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An inflated and fragile ego

Post by Commissaris »

In his case it just seems like a character flaw. An inflated and fragile ego paired with a fan base that by and large enjoys macho domineering make for a volatile concoction. Ideologically I suspect people like Isaac and Richard (Vegan Gains) believe that it's better to intimidate, bully and/or shame people into making a lifestyle change than it is to convince them. It's a strand of militancy that suggests that if you can make your ideological opponent look weak and stupid the audience will prefer to side with you rather than the 'losing' side (think debate logic where you're not looking to have a conversation with your opponent, you're instead trying to get the audience on your side, which is also why Isaac refuses to have a private discussion with Philosophical Vegan). It's not based on being right or wrong but on exploiting the human bias towards those we see as strong and confident or are just afraid of angering. The many 'debates' these people engage in serve to use their opponents as stepping stones to perform rhetorical theatre for their (well-intentioned) message and they're not meant to be discussions because the goal was never to convince anyone actually taking part in the exchange. Evidence and studies can then be used as clubs to beat adversaries with rather than using them to build a case that convinces them.
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Jebus
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Re: An inflated and fragile ego

Post by Jebus »

Commissaris wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:45 am In his case it just seems like a character flaw. An inflated and fragile ego paired with a fan base that by and large enjoys macho domineering make for a volatile concoction.
Good description. I think different styles work for different people. Happy healthy vegan probably appeals to the hippies. Mic appeals to the intellectuals. Vegan Gains appeals to the macho, bullying style. I'm just not sure where AY fits in. He pretends to be intellectual but also a bullying alpha male. I suspect he will end up turning off both those groups.
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Commissaris
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Re: An inflated and fragile ego

Post by Commissaris »

Jebus wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:43 am I'm just not sure where AY fits in. He pretends to be intellectual but also a bullying alpha male. I suspect he will end up turning off both those groups.
Of course we'll find out but that seems like a reasonable estimation. His propensity for flipping out against people he perceives as haters and then going on blocking sprees seems unlikely to retain the social-converts and the excessive focus on insults and takedowns seems unlikely to retain the 'rational'ists.
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Re: An inflated and fragile ego

Post by NonZeroSum »

Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
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Re: An inflated and fragile ego

Post by Gregor Samsa »

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Commissaris
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Re: An inflated and fragile ego

Post by Commissaris »

NonZeroSum wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:32 am Unnatural Vegan and "Dr Singer" ( :lol: ) bringing home some hard truths:
As the kids might say: S A V A G E!

Those are some well-timed screen caps btw, '1 second ago', damn.
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Re: Why is Ask Yourself so comfortable with antagonizing respectable vegan advocates?

Post by Gregor Samsa »

Which video can I find those comments on? I can't believe he says "UV fans haven't given me one single argument" with a straight face.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Why is Ask Yourself so comfortable with antagonizing respectable vegan advocates?

Post by NonZeroSum »

Gregor Samsa wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:30 am Which video can I find those comments on? I can't believe he says "UV fans haven't given me one single argument" with a straight face.
Unnatural Vegan
How I stayed vegan while pregnant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZvE5FiHurQ

The hostility continues...

Ask Yourself
Unnatural Vegan remains confused.
https://youtu.be/v2PgusUacFo
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
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