Raw food discussion

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Raw food discussion

Post by brimstoneSalad » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:01 pm

Not frozen food too! :(
How are we to make berry smoothies? I don't want berry soup.

We just need to irradiate everything, but the anti-food-irradiation people are insane.

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Post by cornivore » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:50 am

Oh, I don't know about the frozen strawberries, a book mentions that higher than allowable levels of irradiation might be necessary to prevent that kind of a hepatitis outbreak.
Irradiation doses up to 1kGy for fresh produce are permitted in the United States. Gamma irradiation doses between 2.7 and 3.0 kGy would be required to achieve ≥90% kill in Hepatitis A virus populations on fruits and vegetables. —Handbook of Vegetables and Vegetable Processing
An article mentions that some veggies may be irradiated at medium kilograys though (and spices can be treated with up to 30 kGy for use in processed foods): FDA approves irradiation of iceberg lettuce, spinach.

I was also reading that medium doses can affect flavor and texture. So does cooking though.
The irradiation dose of 2 kGy is highly effective in controlling microbiological growth, but it is also the dose at which the fruits lose most of their quality and firmness; and further studies using doses between 1 and 2 kGy are required to optimize the raspberry preservation by the irradiation method —Physicochemical and microbiological quality of raspberries (Rubus idaeus) treated with different doses of gamma irradiation

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Post by brimstoneSalad » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:50 pm

@cornivore that makes sense, viruses are very small. That's unfortunate.

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Post by cornivore » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:21 am

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:01 pm
How are we to make berry smoothies? I don't want berry soup.
There are some techniques for chilling wine rapidly that could be used to cool a fruit soup and make it like a smoothy I guess. By the way I hadn't realized that fruit soup was a category (maybe you'd like some blabarssoppa there)... :|

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Post by cornivore » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:34 am

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:24 am
cornivore wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:23 am
Spices are also best cooked for food safety, something not as obvious there (like a pepper shaker), but outbreaks of food poisoning have occurred with those too.
That's crazy, definitely not something I'd have thought of as raw. How common is that?
Besides the article I mentioned before, there's also a Risk Profile of Pathogens and Filth in Spices:
In light of new evidence calling into question the effectiveness of current control measures to reduce or prevent illness from consumption of spices in the United States, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) developed a risk profile on pathogens and filth in spices.

In institutional food services, restaurants, and households, application of untreated spice to foods after the final lethality (cooking) step and the potential for pathogen growth in foods to which Salmonella contaminated spice has been added are of primary concern. In addition, the potential for contamination of spice by pests in the food preparation and storage environments or cross-contamination of spice from surfaces or utensils used to prepare other contaminated foods are also of concern. Preventive controls to minimize most of these outcomes include application of the principles described in the state regulations, the FDA Food Code, and consumer guidance. At this time, spice sold in retail settings (to households) do not generally carry an indication of whether the spice had been treated for reduction of pathogens.
FDA Updates Spice Risk Profile:
The U. S. Food and Drug Administration today [in 2018] updated its 2013 risk profile on pathogens and filth in spices with data that demonstrate that the prevalence of Salmonella in nine out of 11 types of retail spices in the U.S. was significantly lower than that for shipments of spice at import. Except for dehydrated garlic and basil...
Also, given that two out of eleven spices demonstrated a higher prevalence of salmonella, whether or not they were strictly produced in the USA, it seems that the rest (whatever wasn't tested) may very well be risky, out of the box. I think it's just a general rule that plant foods, including spices, are safer to eat when cooked (unless they are molded, where cooking does not destroy as many mycotoxins, but can be a little better than eating raw toxins, if you didn't know it was moldy, for example).

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Post by cornivore » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:38 pm

This one's creepy! Something people get from eating raw centipedes, or be careful where you get your water too (such as a garden hose)...
A study in a Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) published by the CDC looked at the epidemiologic and clinical features of 12 rat lungworm cases in the continental U.S. from January 2011 to 2017. Six were likely a result of transmission in the southern part of the country. Consumption of raw vegetables was reported in 55 percent of those cases.
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Post by cornivore » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:59 am

Well, Angiostrongylus cantonensis doesn't seem to be on the list of foodborne pathogens, but there's another one for foodborne parasites: https://fri.wisc.edu/files/Briefs_File/parasites.pdf

With over 30 pathogens known to cause foodborne illness, I guess variety is also the spice of death.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates, one in six, or 48 million Americans will contract a foodborne illness this year. Most healthy individuals will experience mild to moderate symptoms like diarrhea or vomiting depending on the specific organism. However, individuals with weakened immune systems, the very young, and the elderly are most susceptible to severe illnesses like blood infections, paralysis, and organ failure. CDC estimates that nationally, nearly 128,000 people will be hospitalized and 3,000 people will die as a result of a foodborne illness infection. —Foodborne Pathogens and Illnesses
It sounds like they are trying to improve the situation with raw produce, but food poisoning is still occurring more and more often with it.
Data indicate that between 1973 and 1997, outbreaks of foodborne illness in the U.S. associated with fresh produce increased in absolute numbers and as a proportion of all reported foodborne illness outbreaks. The Agency issued general good agricultural practice guidelines for fresh fruits and vegetables over a decade ago. —Standards for the Growing, Harvesting, Packing, and Holding of Produce for Human Consumption
The proportion of all foodborne outbreaks attributable to raw produce has been increasing. —Produce-associated foodborne disease outbreaks, USA, 1998-2013
By the way, there's more info about spices in the Code of Hygienic Practice:
The safety of spices and dried aromatic herbs products depends on maintaining good hygienic practices along the food chain during primary production, processing, packing, retail, and at the point of consumption. Sporeforming bacteria, including pathogens such as Bacillus cereus, Clostridium perfringens, and Clostridium botulinum, as well as non-sporeforming vegetative cells of microorganisms such as Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, and Salmonella spp. have been found in spices and dried aromatic herbs. There have been a number of outbreaks of illness associated with spice and seasoning consumption, with most being caused by Salmonella spp. that have raised concerns regarding the safety of spices and dried aromatic herbs. The complex supply chain for spices and dried aromatic herbs makes it difficult to identify the points in the food chain where contamination occurs, but evidence has demonstrated that contamination can occur throughout the food chain if proper practices are not followed.

The safety of spices and dried aromatic herbs can also be affected by mycotoxin-producing moulds, e.g. those producing aflatoxin (such as Aspergillus flavus or Aspergillus parasiticus) or ochratoxin A (such as Aspergillus ochraceus, Aspergillus carbonarius, or Penicillium verrucosum). Chemical hazards such as heavy metals and pesticides, as well as physical contaminants such as stones, glass, wire, extraneous matter and other objectionable material, may also be present in spices and dried aromatic herbs
Not only can cooking spices reduce or eliminate pathogens, but can also increase antioxidants (which they say "might help to prevent diseases in people who are under increased oxidative stress even if they don’t prevent them in other people").
Microwaving, simmering and stewing all increased the antioxidant capacity probably as a result of heat liberating the antioxidant compounds. In contrast, cooking techniques that involved dry heating, grilling and frying, resulted in a decrease in antioxidant capacity which was associated with browning".—Culinary Herbs and Spices... Deducing Their True Health Benefits
The latest recall was for spinach, again. :roll:
While the rinse used on spinach may be effective at cleaning dirt and debris from the leaves, it’s not necessarily effective at killing pathogens...—Pre-Washed Spinach May Not Be As Clean As You Think
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Popeye was an ovo-spinachinator who smoked corn...

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Post by cornivore » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:55 am

Life imitates art, you know. "Nuts, nut products and seeds was the top food product category recalled in Europe"...

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Post by cornivore » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:08 am

What's going on with nuts...
While it is difficult to remove Salmonella from low water activity foods, their low infectious doses and high infection rates increase the risks of infections. Studies which show that there may be increased risks when Salmonella are present particularly in low moisture foods. The fatty nature of some of the low moisture foods, mainly nuts and seeds, also helps in evading the acidic condition in the stomach. In addition, some low moisture products such as nuts, flour, and dried fruits might be minimally processed or consumed raw.
Vacuum Steam Pasteurization of Low Moisture Foods
It seems that the cooking of dried ingredients should be done with moist heat in particular, because the bacteria in those tend to have greater heat resistance, over a longer duration, in the absense of moisture during cooking: Thermal Resistance of Salmonellae...
salmonellae in dry foods are much more resistant to heat than those in moist environments...

Under low moisture conditions, heat resistance of bacterial contaminants is greatly enhanced as seen in experiments with melted chocolate.

Even at 90C, it took more than 1 h to kill 90% of Salmonella Typhimurium and at least 30 min for similar destruction of Salmonella Senftenberg.

Addition of moisture to melted chocolate in the form of a distilled water spray or mist dramatically decreased D-values of Salmonella Anatum measured at 71C (14). The D-value was 20 h with no added moisture, and it decreased to 4 h with 2% added moisture.

Although chocolate may seem an unlikely food vector for salmonellosis because of its low moisture and high sugar content, several outbreaks traced to chocolate products demonstrated that these characteristics and the usual heat treatment during processing may be insufficient for the elimination of all salmonellae.
Is the rise of raw chocolate a safety concern?
The NCA’s [US National Confectioners Association] white paper said that salmonella could survive in low moisture foods and could live from months to years in chocolate.
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chocolate products have been at the origin of several salmonellosis outbreaks involving mainly children

Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points in the Chocolate Industry
It's more about the cocoa than the sugar there (although they say "the addition of large amounts of salt or sugar can also be regarded as a simulated drying process"), and this kind of hazard includes a long list of foods which are commonly not cooked off the shelf.
Foods with aw < 0.85 [low water activity] include cereals, chocolate, cocoa powder, dried fruits and vegetables, egg powder, fermented dry sausage, flour, meal and grits, herbs, spices and condiments, honey, hydrolyzed vegetable protein powder, meat powders, dried meat, milk powder, pasta, peanut butter, peanuts and tree nuts, powdered infant formula (PIF), grains, and seeds (e.g., sesame, melon, pumpkin, linseed). Although low-aw foods have clear advantages with respect to controlling growth of foodborne pathogens, there are nevertheless some major concerns. Microorganisms, including those capable of causing human diseases, are able to survive drying processes. Survival of only a few cells of some foodborne pathogens, e.g., Escherichia coli O157:H7 or Salmonella, may be sufficient to cause disease. Once in a desiccated state, metabolism is greatly reduced, i.e., growth does not occur, but vegetative cells and spores may remain viable for several months or even years.

Low–Water Activity Foods: Increased Concern as Vehicles of Foodborne Pathogens

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Post by cornivore » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:38 am

Speaking of desserts, another gotcha for listeria is ice cream, or even sorbet, etc. I hadn't quite thought of it that way (as with frozen bags of fruits or vegetables), but I'm glad that I started making my own sorbet. What about something off the shelf that's more acidic, like lemon sorbet?
If you take Listeria growing at neutral pH, in a neutral food, and drop it into stomach acid, it’s wiped out instantly... But we found that if you take the exact same strain and shifted it to a mildly acidic environment, not so acid that it would kill it, the bacteria sensed the change, and it changed... In fact, the bacteria became completely resistant to stomach acid. —Scientists Crack Listeria Mystery
...as L. monocytogeries can grow to high numbers at refrigeration temperatures, the disinfecting activity of lemon and chlorine would not be sufficient, as shown in the present study. —Survival of the bacterium Listeria monocytogenes (Listeriaceae) after addition of lemon juice...
Listeria bacteria easily survive freezing conditions, as was demonstrated by the Listeria outbreak in recent years that was linked to Blue Bell brand ice cream. —recalled for Listeria
So it sounds like the listeria in sorbet, if present, could be more resistant to bodily defenses than ice cream, depending on the flavor (most fruit is at least mildly acidic—especially when that's diluted—like in a dessert mixture).

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