"Vegan" is a trademark worth $500,000 per year. :-/ (ABLC video)

[brimstoneSalad]

That's always a risk with any open source design, but I think a little risk/benefit analysis is in order. The rainbow flag is obviously extremely easy to copy, but so far no nutty groups seem to have seen fit to appropriate it.

The difference there is that there aren't a lot of violent extremist lgbt groups. On the vegan side we do have extremists who advocate and practice violence, arson, etc.
So, we have groups we already want to distance ourselves from who could pick up the flag pretty readily.

Of course, people we don't like might use our symbol, but they already do (there are plenty of white supremacist vegans out there).

That's another risk, but I suppose one that worries me less than the above. They probably won't fly the flag for their organizations, it may just happen that some members of those organizations are vegan and use it themselves.

[NonZeroSum]

That's always a risk with any open source design, but I think a little risk/benefit analysis is in order. The rainbow flag is obviously extremely easy to copy, but so far no nutty groups seem to have seen fit to appropriate it.

The difference there is that there aren't a lot of violent extremist lgbt groups. On the vegan side we do have extremists who advocate and practice violence, arson, etc.

*Cough* Bash Back, *Cough, Cough* Stonewall was a riot aha.

https://libcom.org/library/queer-ultraviolence-bash-back-anthology

[brimstoneSalad]

*Cough* Bash Back, *Cough, Cough* Stonewall was a riot aha.

https://libcom.org/library/queer-ultraviolence-bash-back-anthology

Are you saying you think those fringe countercultures were or are as significant as ALF, SHAC. ect. are/have been?

I only learned about any of that stuff by looking for it on the premise that any movement probably has a violent fringe; it seems to be practically invisible, and I don't know if there's any evidence that socially meaningful violence ever came of it.

[NonZeroSum]

Are you saying you think those fringe countercultures were or are as significant as ALF, SHAC. ect. are/have been?

I only learned about any of that stuff by looking for it on the premise that any movement probably has a violent fringe; it seems to be practically invisible, and I don't know if there's any evidence that socially meaningful violence ever came of it.

Don't know the stats, doesn't seem to be the same infrastructure like there is with fur farms and slaughter houses to feed into the 'Storming of the Bastille' imagery of militant movements. There was a sentiment during the aids crisis among Act Up activists that any appropriating of funds was ethical because the government was refusing to help, I thought I remembered someone telling me about bank robberies but couldn't find anything on searching, Dallas Buyers Club film depicts the buying of aids drugs in Mexico and distributing them illegally, but hardly unethical. Vigilante groups like Pink Panthers and Bash Back is low level stuff I agree, behind a few assaults and vandalism.

Either way I think the same rule applies, people will go to prison and affiliation for violent queer or vegan groups will be brought up, flags will be discredited a little, doesn't need to have a huge effect if the majority good is being done under it's name, Gad Hakimi who created the flag wears ALF hoodies, so do his friends, and lives in Israel and doesn't support the Palestinian BDS Campaign, probably not the best start publicity wise for dividing opinions, but a symbol's a symbol, I don't think any of this sways a persons opinion on how they feel about copyright, copyleft or copy-free.

[brimstoneSalad]

Either way I think the same rule applies, people will go to prison and affiliation for violent queer or vegan groups will be brought up, flags will be discredited a little, doesn't need to have a huge effect if the majority good is being done under it's name,

Yes, but the question is proportion, and the extent to which it's discredited.
ABLC (since we're talking about his video here, sort of) made some good videos on Black Lives Matter, asking if they had an explicit statement of non-violence that could be used to condemn people doing violence in their name. I think that's a very good question to ask, with or without enforcing trademark.

Gad Hakimi who created the flag wears ALF hoodies, so do his friends, and lives in Israel and doesn't support the Palestinian BDS Campaign, probably not the best start publicity wise for dividing opinions,

Yikes! (on the ALF stuff)
(Does he oppose BDS, or just not support it?)

[NonZeroSum]

ABLC (since we're talking about his video here, sort of) made some good videos on Black Lives Matter, asking if they had an explicit statement of non-violence that could be used to condemn people doing violence in their name. I think that's a very good question to ask, with or without enforcing trademark.

Yes they could try to do that, it's difficult because it's a reactive movement in it's infancy, here's a pledge linked to from their site in full below which includes "We pledge to allow our thinking and actions to be guided by love." The movement which started out as a twitter hash tag consists of a list of chapters and people putting forward policy goals they want to go after and campaign for locally and nationally, the best that can be done at the moment is point to the pledge and show examples of people peacefully protesting and co-operating with the cops.

To: Black peoples and our allies
Take the Pledge: We Are the Movement for Black Lives

Our Movement is under attack. Many want us to stop moving forward. Show them that we can't stop. Stand with the Movement for Black Lives.
Why is this important?

Guided by love, we continue to stand together for justice, human dignity and our shared goal of ending all forms of state violence against Black people. We organize, occupy, demonstrate, march and chant for a new future: A future we can be proud of. We stand on the shoulders of our ancestors, who fought for their freedom and ours. Like them, we want a world where our lives matter.

We want an end to the war being waged on Black people, in all its forms. Some people fear change, and that's ok. Many will attempt to halt our progress. That is not ok. Some will continue their attempts to undermine us, but we will remain undeterred.

For far too long, our unjust deaths have meant business as usual in this country. No more.

Our work remains undone until our lives are free of violence. That is the future we imagine.

Until that day comes:
We pledge togetherness--- we will not allow ourselves to be divided.
We pledge to allow our thinking and actions to be guided by love.
We pledge to bring courage and power into our communities, and stop their flow out.
We pledge not to be controlled by fear, but instead by our dreams.

Join us, and pledge to do the same: Stand with the Movement for Black Lives.

Gad Hakimi who created the flag wears ALF hoodies, so do his friends, and lives in Israel and doesn't support the Palestinian BDS Campaign, probably not the best start publicity wise for dividing opinions,

Yikes! (on the ALF stuff)

Front and centre of his facebook page "Founder of Vegan Flag" an interview with Animal Liberation Front
https://www.facebook.com/goodgad

It does seem if this is an Israeli chapter they do more openly direct action everywhere type protests, which is odd because in the UK I've seen people wearing ALF prisoner support merch who was himself ex-ALF, spent time in prison, but never someone openly declaring themselves to be in ALF, aren't they terror listed in most countries?

החזית לשחרור בעלי חיים-Animal Liberation @alfront
Front for the liberation of animals

https://www.facebook.com/Alfront/
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhaipo.co.il%2Fitem%2F60729&edit-text=&act=url

(Does he oppose BDS, or just not support it?)

I mean I started out saying it's just a symbol and people should use it if they think it's catchy. And yeah he just replies 'no comment' when asked about BDS or anything to do with Palestine, so you might say that's the best to stay single issue, but it's already at that peak politicization point, if he's an activist not talking about attempts to have his flag produced by Palestinians or funds going to support the segregated Palestinian underclass then merch bought directly from him in Israel falls under the boycott. I could understand if it was an Israeli scientist not interested in food production or something it would be wrong to bother them on the question, or cultural events that promote Jewish diaspora internationalism is also great with me or right to exist within pre-1967 borders, as Hitch says lots of countries are started for stupid reasons, but the right of return for Palestinian families is still a substantial one.

ABLC talks somewhere about how it's interesting small countries where threat of war is seen as ever present also have thriving vegan subcultures (even if per capital meat consumption is still high), would be interesting to hear more people breaking down the reasons for this and statistics.