Dealing with irrational atheists

[lerschiboi]

Hey folks,

this is my first post and it's a cry for help already. I started a discussion in the Atheist Experience FB group about the morals of eating meat and what can I say...it's a mess. I now find myself in the middle of dozens of irrational meat eaters and it feels like I'm fighting a losing battle. Would anyone be interested in joining in and helping me out with the argument?

Here's the link to the group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistexperience/

All of this started because I stumbled upon the Vegan Atheists video series about Matt Dillahunty (a man that I greatly appreciate), pointing out the flaws in his arguments about eating meat. Matt replied in the comments of the first video that he had been strangely misrepresented which made me curious what his current stance is on the topic.

Does anyone know if he ever clarified or updated his position on veganism?

Thanks,
Lars

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome!
You should post an intro.

Matt replied in the comments of the first video that he had been strangely misrepresented which made me curious what his current stance is on the topic.

Does anyone know if he ever clarified or updated his position on veganism?

I don't think he has ever clarified, he tends to avoid the subject.

You might want to invite some of those atheist experience posters to come here to debate it; we could help more on this forum.
I'd check it out, but I don't have much time today (maybe somebody else will be able).

What are the arguments you're having trouble with? Can you summarize them? I could link you to threads covering those arguments which may help.

[EquALLity]

Hey folks,

this is my first post and it's a cry for help already. I started a discussion in the Atheist Experience FB group about the morals of eating meat and what can I say...it's a mess. I now find myself in the middle of dozens of irrational meat eaters and it feels like I'm fighting a losing battle. Would anyone be interested in joining in and helping me out with the argument?

Here's the link to the group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/atheistexperience/

All of this started because I stumbled upon the Vegan Atheists video series about Matt Dillahunty (a man that I greatly appreciate), pointing out the flaws in his arguments about eating meat. Matt replied in the comments of the first video that he had been strangely misrepresented which made me curious what his current stance is on the topic.

Does anyone know if he ever clarified or updated his position on veganism?

Thanks,
Lars

Welcome to the forum!

Before you really bother with this, ask yourself - why are you bothering? I think this forum is kind of an anomaly on the Internet, where people are actually open-minded. On Facebook, you'll be lucky if someone even responds with more than "veganizm is STUPIDDDD BACONNNN".

Maybe instead of bothering with that, you should find a local activist group in your area and go leaflet with them.

[EquALLity]

I see that your name is now gray in that group on your post - so you're no longer in it. It says posts made are no longer visible to you, but I can see it, and I'm not in the group. So, they banned you. Wtf?

This is what I mean. It's not worth it, unfortunately. :/

[Red]

I have a pretty basic stance. Mind your own fucking business. Keep your nose of my plate and I will return to favor.
There is also one little fact vegans (the ones that feel the need to lecture of us) seem to forget. Animal products are used in call kinds of other things than food,
These parts come from the SAME dead animals as my tasty steak.
This gets to be a pretty heated subject. It is the only one I never post about. I did it ONE time here and the vegans came out of the wood work. I blame myself. It was a lesson I never forgot.
I don't care what you eat. You can even marry a carrot if you want.
But,if you compare meat eaters to rapist or call us murders,I might have a few other suggestions for where you can put said carrot.

Ah, you just wanna fucking strangle 'em.

These people don't really seem to be interested in learning anything as much as just bolster their beliefs. It'd be fun to try to convince them, but that might be a waste of time. It's worth a shot though.

I have a fake Facebook. Why don't we try it out?

[brimstoneSalad]

These people don't really seem to be interested in learning anything as much as just bolster their beliefs. It'd be fun to try to convince them, but that might be a waste of time. It's worth a shot though.

I have a fake Facebook. Why don't we try it out?

It's easy enough to respond to. Just inform them of the difference between primary products and by-products.

Cows are not being killed for tallow to lubricate extruded plastic with, thus leaving the steaks behind that will be wasted if nobody eats them.
Tallow is dirt cheap, that's why it's used; it's something of a waste product with very little value, and the slaughter houses have to figure out how to get rid of it, so they sell it for almost nothing. Use it to lubricate machinery, add it to biofuel, even eat it if you want (if you wanted the saturated fat for some reason) etc. Doesn't matter, it's not the reason the cows were killed.

Cows are being killed for the meat. If people stop eating the meat, nobody is going to raise animals for tallow. It's not financially viable. They'll just use vegetable oil instead.

By-products are practically freegan since they are not what drive the industry. It's like eating roadkill; the question is consequences, and doing that has none to other sentient beings.
Now if there were something important to humans that could not be made without animal products, that would be worth taking note of.

[lerschiboi]

Thanks for welcoming me. I'll post an intro shortly.

I got banned indeed from the group and to be honest, I think they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of me. The majority of their "arguments" revolved around their personal choice to eat whatever they want - that it's none of my business what they eat and then the fact that it's virtually impossible for anyone to be 100% vegan.

I truly thought that this could've turned into a productive argument with people who supposedly follow the evidence where it leads and think critically. Guess I was wrong..lesson learned!

What got me banned was my admittedly slightly bugged out response (after getting attacked for hours on end) to the Admin's personal choice claim:

"Your diet choices were personal if there was no one else involved, it baffles me that this seems so hard to grasp. If I were to go out and kill another human being for the sake of my own pleasure, it's no longer my "personal choice"
If your food choices heavily contribute to climate change, it's no longer a "personal choice".
I'm not intending to shame other people but trying to point out the illogicality of eating animal products and I haven't been presented with a sound counter argument so far."

I think brimstoneSalad's take on the by-products is spot on. What would you guys have responded to the "It's none of your business - I can eat whatever I want" claims?

RedAppleGP, yeah, maybe we can use your fake FB account and post one last time in that thread to address their main objections (personal choice + no one can be 100% vegan) and then invite those who're truly interested in discussing the topic to come over here.

[brimstoneSalad]

Also, for the record, somebody should screenshot the whole thing and attach it here so others can read it after it's deleted.

[lerschiboi]

Let's see if this works: (By the way, please let me know if there are parts where I have been irrational or could've argued better. I'm pretty new to any kind of debating but keen to get better)

[Red]

Got the whole thing. It was a bit of a shitstorm.

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