From an IRC discussion:
TheRockARooster hugs back
<TheRockARooster> Where's Midnight, Sapphire?
<SapphireLightning> eating noms
<SapphireLightning> proper noms
<TheRockARooster> Huh?
<MidnightBlossom> and I return
<SapphireLightning> explain to TheRockARooster, MidnightBlossom , what proper noms are
<HStrudel> Bacon
<TheRockARooster> Oh OK.
<MidnightBlossom> Noms that don't hurt others to create
<TheRockARooster> Cool.
* TheRockARooster hugs Midnight.
<Zeal> I don't see Strudel ever becoming vegan
<Zeal> Morning to the both of you
<MidnightBlossom> *Hugs Trar gently* hay there, and hi hi zeal
<SapphireLightning> HStrudel is ok with raping, torturing and murdering other sentient beings. He doesnt understand that this isnt about him.
<SapphireLightning> And I cant make him see that
<HStrudel> Wow....
<TheRockARooster> Sapphire?
<SapphireLightning> So yeah, he will prob never care
<HStrudel> I make a joke... well my fucking bad
* HStrudel has quit (Quit: Has exploded messily)
<SapphireLightning> Sorry, been getting very frustrated with this world and the actions that the members of it do.
<SapphireLightning> "bacon" is not a joke.
<TheRockARooster> Sapphire?
<SapphireLightning> sorry
<SapphireLightning> Im going to nap
<MidnightBlossom> *hugs gently* I know you are love, but you need to try and remain calm about it.
<TheRockARooster> I'm glad you don't hate me because of what I eat.
<TheRockARooster> I worry.
<TheRockARooster> Hello?
<Midnight[mobile]> I'm here.
<TheRockARooster> Midnight, can I ask you something?
<Midnight[mobile]> I think she went to go lay down, or to de-stress.
<Midnight[mobile]> What's on your mind?
<TheRockARooster> You don't hate me because I'm not a vegan, do you?
<Midnight[mobile]> I'm incapable of hatred, so no I don't hate you.
* TheRockARooster hugs.
<TheRockARooster> You and Sapphire are very special to me.
<Midnight[mobile]> Fair enough.
<Midnight[mobile]> Sorry I'm a bit out of it due to meds.
<TheRockARooster> It's OK, I hope you feel better, I'm gonna go right now, take care Midnight.
<Zeal> Bye Trar
* TheRockARooster has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
<Midnight[mobile]> Take care TRAR hope you have a pleasant day
<Zeal> Hey Midnight, do you have Stardew Valley?
<Midnight[mobile]> I do, buy I've not played much of it.
<Zeal> I thought you might be the type to like it. It's such a cute game
* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer)
* Loaded log from Sat Jul 9 14:12:02 2016
* Now talking on #PonyCafe
* Topic for #PonyCafe is: For Those that are watching Season Six. PLEASE REMEMBER! NO SPOILERS!!!! Go to #PonyCafe-SpoilerRoom to discuss the new season!
* Topic for #PonyCafe set by SapphireLightning (Mon May 16 17:17:03 2016)
* ChanServ sets mode +q on #PonyCafe SapphireLightning
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to SapphireLightning
<PonyBot> Welcome SapphireLightning to #PonyCafe. Type !help for a PMed list of bot commands. To see our other rooms type !rooms. PonyCafe.net. NEW ROOM! #PonyCafe-SpoilerRoom . Go here to talk about the new season without worry about spoilers! NEW FEATURE! !addme and !goodnight, ask a mod about them!
<PonyBot> Welcome home, Sapphire. Lady of the manor. Queen of the castle. Lithium mode on.
* Midnight[mobile] has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
<Starlight> "[18:55] <~SapphireLightning> HStrudel is ok with raping, torturing and murdering other sentient beings. He doesnt understand that this isnt about him." - That's a bit excessive
<Starlight> They're neither raped nor tortured for bacon..
<Zeal> Starlight, please
<Zeal> Just let it pass
<Starlight> If "let it pass" means keep silent about something that's excessive and unfair, no.
<SapphireLightning> yes please. If you do not understand how animal agriculture works, please do not comment on it.
<Starlight> They're not RAPED.
<SapphireLightning> Pigs do not "get it on" they are inseminated against their will.
* Midnight[mobile] (~MidnightB@hide-8A8BAAD8.mc.at.cox.net) has joined
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to Midnight[mobile]
<PonyBot> Welcome Midnight[mobile] to #PonyCafe. Type !help for a PMed list of bot commands. To see our other rooms type !rooms. PonyCafe.net. NEW ROOM! #PonyCafe-SpoilerRoom . Go here to talk about the new season without worry about spoilers! NEW FEATURE! !addme and !goodnight, ask a mod about them!
<PonyBot> Welcome Midnight. She who sings our world to sleep.
<Starlight> Inseminating =/= rape
<SapphireLightning> according to google, rape is: Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.
<Starlight> Person.
<SapphireLightning> Since pigs are sentient beings and are therfor person
<SapphireLightning> s
<PonyBot> SapphireLightning snuggles
<Starlight> Sentient =/= person.
<Starlight> They dont have a concept of consent.
<SapphireLightning> So your argument to forcing another SENTIENT being to give birth against their will is semantics?
<SapphireLightning> When they FIGHT to get away, it is them NOT giving their consent!
<Starlight> No, but saying someone eats bacon isn't saying they're "OK with raping and torturig"
<SapphireLightning> They are PAYING for those actions!
<Starlight> It's an industry, Animals have always been eaten.
<Starlight> By human beings. Without them we wouldn't have evolved.
<SapphireLightning> So was slavery
<Starlight> It's natural to eat meat.
<Starlight> Human brains wouldn't have evolved without it.
<SapphireLightning> Actually it was the ability to cook tubers that powered our brains.
<Starlight> To cook meat in order to be able to digest and process it better
<SapphireLightning> The conversion efficiency of the carbs in meat is very inefficient when it comes to glucose (the sugar the brain is powered off of). We can get it directly with little conversion from starches
<Starlight> But even then. Saying that because someone eats meat that they support rape and torture is unfair.
<Starlight> Hell. You kill plants.
<SapphireLightning> If you PAY for it, then you are literally supporting it
<SapphireLightning> Plants are not sentient and do not experience their own existance
<Starlight> So it's ok to hunt and kill wild game
<SapphireLightning> Also, you need to kill more plants to get a small amount of meat
<Starlight> They experience sensations of pain and distress.
<Starlight> They can tell when they're being attacked.
<Starlight> Circle of life, things die, animals eat other animals.
<SapphireLightning> Plants do not experience anything, there are over 2500 studies on animal sentience, there is not a single study that has shown plant sentience
<Starlight> Don't say someone supports rape and torture for something THAT IS EVOLUTIONARY NATURAL.
<SapphireLightning> You have no need to eat animals
<Starlight> Yet they do emit peremones, sounds etc, when encoutnered in physical damage.
<SapphireLightning> Yes, and your skin turns brown when exposed to UV light, it isnt a conscious decision, it is simply a chemical reaction.
<Starlight> Pain is a chemical reaction
<SapphireLightning> They have no system of consciousness and therfor no sentience.
<Starlight> Well, an electrical ones.
<Starlight> Still, you're supporting in the death of plantlife.
<Starlight> Things die, so things survive.
<SapphireLightning> On top of that, to get animal products requires 10 to 20 times as much plant matter per calorie, so eating animals requires more plant death IF they were sentient then the argument makes no sense.
<Starlight> Rape is a concept that is built out of a system of being able to consent
<SapphireLightning> So I can kill you and eat you?
<Starlight> Neither plants nor animals can consent
<Starlight> You can try.
<Starlight> but i'd end you first.
<SapphireLightning> When a being FIGHTS to escape something, they are saying they are not consenting
<Starlight> Pfft.
<Starlight> I fight to escape bondage.
<Starlight> 's part of the fun.
<Starlight> They still dont have a concept of consent
<Starlight> Nor rape.
<SapphireLightning> Consent is doing or allowing something to be done without argument. Fighting to escape is an argument
<Starlight> Plus, again. So you're fine with hunting and killing for food?
<Starlight> As long as it's not bought?
<Starlight> Dunno about your US laws for meat handling
<SapphireLightning> No, I am not fine with harming other sentient beings as much as is possible and practicable.
<Starlight> But shit in the UK is a lot more humane and regulated.
<Starlight> Practicable.
<SapphireLightning> No it isnt. The "things are more humane in..." (ive heard, UK, US, Ireland, and Australia here) is bullshit.
<SapphireLightning> Yes, practicable.
<SapphireLightning> Not practical
<SapphireLightning> Its a word
<Zeal> So about that debate room :p
<Starlight> Then being vegan is massively impracticable.
<Starlight> As a species.
<Starlight> We wouldn't have survived if we tried it.
<SapphireLightning> Starlight, the vast majority of humans can easily be vegan.
<Starlight> And what about those with allergies?
<Starlight> What about those in areas where it's impossible for the agriculture to provide everyone?
<SapphireLightning> Before modern times, it would have been hard since having more options to get calories from was important, but with farming, it is more efficient to get calories from plants due to how much plant matter must be fed to livestock
<Starlight> What about all the areas that get overrun if not hunted.
<SapphireLightning> Starlight, to answer the "what about those people" question: Do you NOT know what the word practicable means?
<SapphireLightning> or possible?
<Starlight> Yes. I do.
<SapphireLightning> Starlight, the only reason we "need" to hunt is because we also hunt the predators
<Starlight> So killing predators is fine
<SapphireLightning> No
<Zeal> Well the thing is starting soon, so I'm probably going to hop off for a bit to watch it
<SapphireLightning> Because it destroys the balance and makes it so we "have" to hunt the prey. It is actually done on purpose to sell hunting licenses in some areas
<SapphireLightning> cya Zeal
<Starlight> Either way. Beyond the point. Personally jumping on someone to that fucking degree, For eating something (again which is a natural part of human life since we properlly started developing) is still uncool.
<Zeal> Bye you two
* Zeal has quit (Quit: Most likely sleeping)
<SapphireLightning> No, you are thinking of the one who is consuming, I am thinking of the ones who had to go through the torment.
<Starlight> You can make a choice, Sure. They make one too. Only difference is one of them is actually consistant with human evolution as a species
<SapphireLightning> So yeah, sorry. I am not going to defend those that pay for harming others.
<SapphireLightning> It stops being a personal choice when you harm others to such a degree
<Starlight> And unfortunatly in your case, it's vegans that are the unnatural ones.
<SapphireLightning> Eatting plants is unnatural?
<Starlight> No it does.
<Starlight> No, exclusively plant diet is unnatural for humans.
<Starlight> Given our evolutionary traits.
<SapphireLightning> Humans were FRUGIVORES for millions of years. It took technology to make animal products less toxic. Omnivores can eat meat without cooking it, and dont get sick, humans get sick from uncooked food.
<Starlight> And, People eating meat aren't -directly- harming the animals themselves, so don't attack them.
<Starlight> Erm, no. Humans can still eat uncooked meat.
<SapphireLightning> When you pay someone to harm, you are making the harm happen
<Starlight> It's when we started cooking it that we could digest it easier
<Starlight> So that we could get more neutrional benefit that then accellerated growth
<Starlight> And we then adjusted to cooked meat.
<SapphireLightning> So, go to the store, buy some steak and eat it without washing or cooking it.
<Starlight> I have
<SapphireLightning> The accelerated growth was from tubers.
<Starlight> Not washing it is wrong anywya.
<SapphireLightning> Omnivores and carnivores do not wash meat
<SapphireLightning> They kill an animal and just eat it, shit and all
<Starlight> Yes but we can still wash it if able. And even then, you can still cook meat unwashed if in the wild
<Starlight> We're not animals.
<Starlight> As much as we are, we're not.
<SapphireLightning> Yes we are.
<Starlight> We're able to actually consciously recognise and do things in order to survive better, that's why we evoled as we did
<Starlight> Even then. If it does hurt others?
<Starlight> It's still their choice if they eat it or not
<SapphireLightning> And you dont think that any other animals have decision making abilities?
<Starlight> They can see the evidence, if they choose not to want to go vegan? They made their choice.
<SapphireLightning> So if I hurt you, it is ok, because it is my personal choice?
<Starlight> It doesn't matter.
<Starlight> You do waht you'll do.
<Starlight> And i'll do what I'll do in return.
<SapphireLightning> You are sick
<Starlight> If you feel bad about it
<Starlight> That's on you
<Starlight> If you don't.
<Starlight> That's on you.
<Starlight> But it's not ok, nor is it ok.
<Starlight> Because it doesn't matter.
<Starlight> Actions and consequences.
<SapphireLightning> Nihilism is the excuse of a weak mind
<Starlight> If he becomes vegan?
<Starlight> Those pigs aren't saved.
<Starlight> They'll still be eaten.
<Starlight> By others.
<Starlight> Who choose to eat them.
<Starlight> You can pick thigns like organic, free range food.
<Starlight> To let the animals live a decent life beforehand.
<SapphireLightning> Well, there are more and more who reject enslaving other beings for exploitation every year, so you are on the wrong side of histery
<Starlight> So don't assume everyone eats meat just supports rape and torture.
<SapphireLightning> Free range? You do know that doesnt mean shit, right? It is just a marketing label.
<Starlight> And say fucking wildly overexaggerated.
<Starlight> Oh fuck it.
<SapphireLightning> If you PAY for it you SUPPORT it
* Starlight has quit (Quit: Something probably broke)
Sorry for the long post, but this is all of it.
