Vegan family member refusing to eat at the table

[apple1]

Hey, I am new - sorry to start with such a moody post but I am really not sure what to do. I am mostly vegan for health reasons and have enjoyed many benefits of a vegan diet. My partner is also vegan for ethical reasons. I came here because I needed some perspective on how to live in a non vegan world and my partner and I handle situations very differently! I am not perfect and will occasionally indulge in non vegan foods for holidays, birthdays, special occasions etc. My partner never eats non vegan food and gets quite upset if he accidentally eats dairy products etc.

When we go out he usually brings his own food while I order/ make something where I go. Lately, however he has begun to say things like "sitting around people eating meat is like sitting at a table with a bunch of smokers" and "creatures that eat meat are ...." (you can fill in the gaps). He is even going so far as to say he will refuse to sit at the table at birthdays and Christmases if there are non vegan foods at the table!!! He was always fairly opinionated, but I feel like this is really crossing a line and becoming quite hateful and unreasonable.

It's really making me uncomfortable as we have a family celebration (a roast unfortunately) next week and I am already quite anxious about it.
When we discussed it he insists that he can't stand the sight, smell and sound of people eating meat and other animal products, and that since people never listen to him and change their behaviour, he feels like this will make people look at their own food choices (when has that ever worked - usually they just get defensive and justify their food choices if you question them) and that food shouldn't be a big deal to people (basically every celebration in every culture is centred around food so I don't know why he would think this would change anything). Quite simply, I feel like he knows that his behaviour will annoy and offend people, and that I will have to sit at the table and deal with it on my own. I told him this, he said to tell them to ask him and discuss it with him after the meal. I even went to far as to say that family celebrations shouldn't be handled this way, and that his behaviour was almost a form of domestic abuse since he was trying to control the situation and me and making it such that people would avoid dealing with us. I had a friend once who had a violent boyfriend - they went out to dinner with her family and he proceeded to make loud inappropriate comments about the appearance of her mother and sisters at the table - needless to say she stayed with him and never sees her family now so he got what he wanted!

I told him this and his response was that I was making a big deal of everything and to just try and enjoy things and it's family so why should they really care what we do. In other respects, he is a good person but sometimes seems to lack emotional intelligence or an understanding of how others are feeling. He Have any of you ever dealt with this kind of behaviour in the community (I don't know many other vegans and quite frankly I feel quite embarrassed to ask someone I know). I feel like he is using his diet to try and control me. Am I being paranoid or does this sound reasonable to any of you?

[DarlBundren]

Hi apple1,

Sorry to hear about your situation. Of course, it's not easy for us to know if your boyfriend is really using his veganism as a form of violence or not. It certainly sounds like an odd way of behaving to me.

It is true that once you have realized what meat-eaters are doing every time they order a burger, it's diifficult to bear the sight of someone eating meat. However, if he really cared about the ethical side of veganism, he would try to make it look like a viable and happy choice instead of perpetrating the stereotype of the crazy vegan activist. He should realize that the only result of such a behaviour is more people scared away from a laudable movement . He should understand that ethics is primarly about the way we live with other people. We are not alone in this world. Does he really think that he is doing any good by embarassing you in front of the people you love? Does he really think that he is promoting veganism by acting like a lunatic?

Try to talk to him. Explain him how much he is negatively affecting your relationship, and how harmful his behaviour is for veganism. if you have decided to write about him in a forum, I'm sure that this situation is difficult for you. You should deal with it as soon as you can.

[inator]

I'll start by saying that he's wrong in his decision not to join the family dinner. By isolating himself from meat eaters he's making an emotional statement, but he's certainly not doing the animals any favor. No one will eat less animal products just because he's not at the dinner table, instead he might miss an opportunity to positively influence others.
By joining non-vegans in daily activities and showing by example how easy it is to enjoy the same things in a more ethical way, while not making the lifestyle seem extreme and impossible to follow, we have a better chance of normalizing the concept of veganism in the perceptions of others and in time to influence some of them to become better themselves.
By refusing to be around non-vegans, he is only sheltering himself from negative emotions (which is understandable), but he is certainly not making a positive impact in any way. And the latter should be his primary goal.

That said, I think you have to understand where he's coming from. I'll make an analogy:
Imagine you both lived in a society where racism and slavery are the norm and few people question it. He is asked to come to a family dinner where every participant is a racist slaver and the meal is served by slaves. In this scenario I think you would find it understandable that, even if he insisted to prepare his own meal and refused to be served by the slaves, just joining the dinner table would make him extremely uncomfortable.
(Please note that I'm not equating the wrongness of slavery to the wrongness of eating animals, it's just an analogy to illustrate his reasoning in a way that might be easier for you to relate to.)

I don't know if he's trying to control you by not wanting to join the celebration. He's obviously being difficult and isn't trying to understand your feelings. But it also seems like you are pressuring him to put himself in a situation that makes him very uncomfortable and goes against what he stands for. (If I have misunderstood, please let me know).
I think this can only be resolved if both of you show some sympathy for the perspective of the other. You could make the first step. If you don't, and instead make this situation about your own feelings in an accusatory way, he'll probably continue being defensive and less open to listening.
Have a sit-down, show him that you're willing to understand and respect his need to act in accordance with his morals. Then try to introduce him to another perspective: the fact that isolating himself won't do the animals any good, instead it might actually hurt his ability to give veganism a good image. It's important to take a logical approach to veganism, which values consequences of actions rather than emotional responses and dogmatic self-imposed rules.
He might not be convinced. But remember that what you're trying to do is to help him be more consistent with his own ethics, not to make this about him having to compromise his morals for you.

You could even refer him to this forum if you find it difficult to explain to him why a consequentialist approach is more reasonable and helpful to the animals than what he's doing.

[brimstoneSalad]

inator hit the nail on the head.

His best approach for vegan activism is called "food evangelism"
He should bring some delicious vegan dishes. Because it's a social setting, he can encourage people to try them and talk about how they're vegan. Focus positively on the good delicious vegan food, rather than focusing negatively on the animal suffering.

If somebody criticizes him, you'll need to take over and stand up for him, though. He may not like the argumentative conflict, and meat eaters can become aggressive sometimes when they simply know somebody is vegan, even when nothing has been said about them.


That said:

If he really just doesn't want to go to the dinner, you shouldn't force him. Veganism is a bad excuse, but feeling uncomfortable is fair.

Also:

This may be more personal than you think. If YOU eat non-vegan things at these gatherings sometimes, he may be afraid to see you eat something non-vegan, because this could really hurt his feelings. He loves you, and when you do something that betrays his ethics, it may feel like it's a betrayal to him personally.
It's not a big deal to not eat animal products at these things, right?

It's not a control thing, but you could make him feel a lot better if you didn't do that anymore.
Jebus (on this forum) has some experience with that, as his wife sometimes eats non-vegan. He doesn't tell her not to, but he can tell you how it upsets him.

I wouldn't do something unnecessary like that if it deeply upset somebody I loved. Even if it's something I don't think has any moral value (like being mean to a toy), it matters to him or her.
Would you sit on or casually knock a beloved teddy bear on the floor if it upset your child? We need to have some respect for the feelings of those we love, even if we don't agree with them.

[apple1]

Well I had a talk with him and there are a lot of complex intersecting issues (that have nothing to do with food and aren't appropriate to discuss) as to why each of us feels the way we do... I agree that there is some disrespect on both sides, but the fact that he practically laughed at my concerns when I have been hugely supportive of him in many ways was really disappointing. In short, I came away feeling like I have to do everything for him and he feels like he doesn't have to do anything for me. I am pretty sure if the situation here was reversed (e.g. I went vegan and he didn't) he would be the kind of person who would grill up Canadian bacon every morning just to challenge me (although he would insist he wasn't and that I was stupid for being upset).

[brimstoneSalad]

I am pretty sure if the situation here was reversed (e.g. I went vegan and he didn't) he would be the kind of person who would grill up Canadian bacon every morning just to challenge me (although he would insist he wasn't and that I was stupid for being upset).

That's not a fair analogy.

Imagine a couple where one party quit smoking, and the other didn't. It is much more reasonable for the non-smoking party to encourage the smoking party to quit, and much more malicious for the smoking party to try to tempt the non-smoking party into smoking again.

Imagine an overweight couple where one party began exercising, and the other didn't. It is again in this case much more reasonable for the exercising party to encourage the other to change, and malicious and unsupportive of the non-exerciser to discourage the other from this change.

Veganism vs. carnism, like these examples, is not a balanced proposition where each person's opinion is equally valid, healthy and ethical, and it's just an arbitrary choice like what your favorite color is.

In the vegan case, as in the quitting smoking or exercising case, it is reasonable for one party to encourage the other to self betterment, and malicious for the other party to try to hold back the person trying to be better.
Your support as a non-vegan for a vegan should be a given (anything else would be malicious), just as his encouragement of you going vegan should be a given (which is not at all malicious: if he didn't encourage you, then I'd worry, because it probably means he doesn't love you enough to care).

[apple1]

I see your point - but it's the social aspect that will become a problem here. We went to our niece's birthday party a couple of weeks ago and he refused to participate in any of the activities at the table altogether because there was food around (not just meat) - including singing happy birthday to an 8 year old because there was a cake (that my sister spent ages making) on the table!

Fortunately no-one made a scene but I think this is way over the top, and even though he explained his reasoning, I couldn't help but feel somewhat embarrassed, sad and angry about the day. My brother in law's mom is a Jehova's Witness (who doesn't celebrate birthdays) but she still participated for her granddaughter's sake. Even though he insists that he isn't trying to hurt anybody, it comes across as disregarding the importance of spending time with family (especially for the children) and just plain arrogant. He could have bought all his own food and sat at the damn table (we were outside anyway), instead of just saying hello and goodbye and hiding in the basement.

I am also worried that he will lose friends and possibly his job over this kind of behavior (he works at a bank so networking and attracting clients is important), and that he may even have mental health issues. He's 28 years old, not a moody teenager!

[brimstoneSalad]

I see your point - but it's the social aspect that will become a problem here.

I agree that's a problem. If he's going to do that, he just shouldn't go at all. It shouldn't be that big of a deal if he doesn't attend.

It's possible he's acting like this for other reasons. See my post above where I responded to your "situations reversed" analogy as poor. Maybe he feels misunderstood by you, and he's trying to make a point.

Are you eating vegan at these events? If not, that may trouble him more than anything else.

My brother in law's mom is a Jehova's Witness (who doesn't celebrate birthdays) but she still participated for her granddaughter's sake.

That's highly irregular.

I am also worried that he will lose friends and possibly his job over this kind of behavior (he works at a bank so networking and attracting clients is important), and that he may even have mental health issues. He's 28 years old, not a moody teenager!

I'm sure you're concerned for him, but if you have expressed this to him it may just cause him to double down because he's feeling attacked and misunderstood. The same situation probably doesn't exist with his work.

[shityday]

From the previous posts it sounds like he's a bit self-righteous, which I won't comment on whether he deserves to be, but, I have a question:

Do you guys ever go out to eat in all-vegan spaces? I know when I'm feeling down or disgusted by the things around me at the table, it helps to go to a dinner with all-vegan friends or at a vegan cafe (if you have one).

[apple1]

We do have vegan restaurants around and I have recently offered to take him to one with the family... however he has now decided not to eat around people full stop. This latest development has me wondering if he's on the spectrum - it's probably not appropriate for me to talk about this specifically anymore but thank you for your insights.