Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

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vegan81vzla
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Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by vegan81vzla »

According to Wikipedia:
"Zoophilia is a paraphilia involving a sexual fixation on non-human animals. Bestiality is cross-species sexual activity between human and non-human animals. The terms are often used interchangeably, but some researchers make a distinction between the attraction (zoophilia) and the act (bestiality)"

So, in this trend I will be referring to zoophilia not as sexuality, but as attraction or the extreme affinity that the current vegan propaganda/movement or most of the mainstream media vegan promoters express to the public.

We all know where this leads, for veganism to be viewed as misanthropic in general, to the extreme for the zoophile vegans agree to be called misanthropes, a.k.a. haters of humanity in general (yourovsky, vegan gains, and others)

I've always said it. Arguing for veganism as an animal only issue, animal first, animal rights, is completely detrimental to the movement. But not only because it shows us as extremely zoophilic / misanthropes. But because we already live in a highly zoophilic society.

Carnists love their animals. They love them so much that they won't imagine themselves not depending on them. Most farmers, local ones, would say that they treat their animals as best as they can. And the current vegan mainstream message just reinforce that idea, that people should care for animals more? That is nonsense and a recipe for failure!

Being Carnism a new term that hasn't been yet accepted as a whole, I like to define it as
"The word carnism denotes a philosophy and a way of living which seeks to perpetuate human dependency to animals for food, clothing or any other purpose, and by extension, it denies or overlooks any disadvantage that such dependency creates for human kind, the animal kingdom and the environment, as carnism regards it as normal, natural and necessary"

The similarity in which carnism is defined this way, with the vegan definition is not accidental. As by many, carnism, it is viewed as the actual problem with our society. The problem is not speciesism, or humans not caring for animals, but the false believe that we must depend on them in all levels. Current zoophilia within the vegan movement just promotes carnism. So instead of promoting to perpetuate any kind of dependency, the vegan movement should promote full separation from animal affairs.

We have little if anything to take from or give to the animal kingdom. We have to solve our problems aside from the animal logic, which we have kept using thanks to our carnist society.
Last edited by vegan81vzla on Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaywalker
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Jaywalker »

That's interesting, but I don't understand why you want to convolute the meanings of so many words... Carnism is already well defined and has to do with eating meat. Does a blind vegan with a guide dog become a carnist under your definition? If so, that's not very sensible.

Zoophilia is something sexual. Are you saying vegans are sexually attracted to animals?
vegan81vzla wrote:Carnists love their animals. They love them so much that they won't imagine themselves not depending on them. Most farmers, local ones, would say that they treat their animals as best as they can. And the current vegan mainstream message just reinforce that idea, that people should care for animals more? That is nonsense and a recipe for failure!
Farmers say that because that's the way they deal with their cognitive dissonance. You don't go out of your way to kill someone you love. And what about the vast majority of meat eaters who just want to eat meat and don't care about the animal it comes from? Some of them may claim they care, but saying you care about something and actually caring about it are different things. This is the vegan message in a nutshell: Don't just say you care, act like you care.
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vegan81vzla
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by vegan81vzla »

Jaywalker wrote:Carnism is already well defined and has to do with eating meat.
It is not well defined, as it does not even appear in the dictionary, and Wikipedia states it as
"Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to animals, defined as a prevailing ideology that conditions people to support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat"

The USE and CONSUMPTION of animal PRODUCTS, so it is not only meat, as you suggest. So Wikipedia only says that it is a concept used within certain discussions that was recently coined. Speaking about how to properly define carnism is correct.
Jaywalker wrote:Does a blind vegan with a guide dog become a carnist under your definition? If so, that's not very sensible.
Yes and no. No, because the vegan definition grants for a vegan to exclude as far as it is possible and practical, avoid the exploitation of animals. But that is the problem with the current vegan promoters. Vegans should look after a blind vegan, instead of worrying about saving dogs.
Jaywalker wrote:Zoophilia is something sexual. Are you saying vegans are sexually attracted to animals?
I don't know why I have to explain something I said in the original post. Zoophilia is defined as sexual, but Wikipedia differentiates it with bestiality to grant different levels of attraction, being bestiality a sexual act as the extreme, and zoophilia as just a mere attraction or affinity as I said I would be using the term. Due to the current state of the over animalistic vegan propaganda/message, by most outside veganism can be viewed as zoophilic
Jaywalker wrote: Farmers say that because that's the way they dealeir cognitive dissonance. You don't go out of your way to kill someone you love. And what about the vast majority of meat eaters who just want to eat meat and don't care about the animal it comes from? Some of them may claim they care, but saying you care about something and actually caring about it are different things. This is the vegan message in a nutshell: Don't just say you care, act like you care.
But that's the thing. People shouldn't care for animals. They already do care to the extreme of feeding and over feeding them and protect them from weather and other animals. They care for their animals so much that they forget to care about other humans (blind ones for example). The current vegan message/propaganda/promoters is missing the point by telling people to care about animals.
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Jaywalker
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Jaywalker »

It is not well defined, as it does not even appear in the dictionary, and Wikipedia states it as
"Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to animals, defined as a prevailing ideology that conditions people to support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat"
It doesn't have to be in a dictionary to be well defined. I didn't say it solely has to do with eating meat, but it's overwhelmingly used to describe the underlying beliefs of meat eaters - that is, the other end of the spectrum opposite veganism (I don't think it's appropriate to use it to describe vegetarians who eat cheese, for instance, just as it's not appropriate to call them vegans), and that was the intention of the author who coined the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Lo ... _Wear_Cows
Maybe also read further into the article you're quoting from.
Yes and no.
How is the answer both yes and no? If yes, that is almost as meaningless as an atheistic theist. If no, you should redefine it (or rather stick to definitions that are already useful).
I don't know why I have to explain something I said in the original post. Zoophilia is defined as sexual, but Wikipedia differentiates it with bestiality to grant different levels of attraction, being bestiality a sexual act as the extreme, and zoophilia as just a mere attraction or affinity as I said I would be using the term. Due to the current state of the over animalistic vegan propaganda/message, by most outside veganism can be viewed as zoophilic
I can't tell if you're misunderstanding it or if you're trying to redefine yet another word according to your whim. Zoophilia is a sexual attraction, not affinity. Using it that way makes about as much sense as saying parents are pedophiliacs.
But that's the thing. People shouldn't care for animals. They already do care to the extreme of feeding and over feeding them and protect them from weather and other animals...
Taking care of (handling) something and caring about it are different things...

Anyway, stop trying to render words useless.
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by vegan81vzla »

Jaywalker wrote:I didn't say it solely has to do with eating meat
Oh but you did, and didn't give it room for the other sources of use, cruelty and exploitation of animals
Jaywalker wrote:Carnism is already well defined and has to do with eating meat.
And not only that, but later you also gave yourself the liberty to use and understand the term as however you or a group of people chooses to do so
Jaywalker wrote: , but it's overwhelmingly used to describe the underlying beliefs of meat eaters
So in the end, you do the same thing you criticize me for

I understand that vegans promoters of the overly animalistic/zoophilic reasoning for ending carnism would dislike to be referred as that, but I am just reflecting the general view of the carnist status quo, and they are right. While on the other hand vegans fall short to realize that the current society we live in has that very same problem of extreme affinity to the animals. That is the reason why nothing changes if the message is the same.
Jaywalker wrote: Taking care of (handling) something and caring about it are different things...
So here you just use a word play to express a point, something you keep criticizing me for. And even if you were right, that is the exact problem I have kept referring. The only thing that the vegan message keeps doing is telling people to take care of animals. "Feed them, shelter them, save them" is all the vegan message says failing to realize that people already do. If things are really to change, a separation and non-intervention with animals is much better than to keep promoting the same cause of the problem
Jaywalker wrote: Anyway, stop trying to render words useless.
I would advise you do the same
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Jaywalker »

The phrase "has to do with" doesn't exclude other things from being associated with it... However, it first and foremost has to do with eating meat. Here is the FAQ of the website founded by the author who coined the term "carnism": http://www.carnism.org/faq
Read the part under "Is carnism the opposite of vegetarianism?"
So in the end, you do the same thing you criticize me for
No, I'm criticising you for misusing language and making it confusing and useless.
So here you just use a word play to express a point
That's not a word play, that's the same word used in different contexts to describe different things. Many words have multiple meanings. What you're doing is conflating different meanings as if they are the same. The people in the animal industry don't care about the animals, they care about their earnings. But they have to take care of the animals in order to sell their products.
"Feed them, shelter them, save them" is all the vegan message says
That's not what the vegan message says. The vegan message says it's wrong to inflict needless suffering on animals. You don't really have to feed or shelter animals to be a vegan, though that would be nice too.
I would advise you do the same
What are you talking about?
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Philosophical Vegan »

vegan81vzla, the forum rules have changed since you were last active. Read the new rules.

http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2115
Forum Rules wrote:1. This is a discussion forum. Please come here willing to discuss. This isn't a place to lecture, and then refuse to address others' rational arguments or even answer others' questions. Discussion is founded upon logic, if you don't accept basic logic as valid, there's really nothing for you to do here except lecture, and this isn't the place for it. Again: This is a discussion forum.
Discussion is also founded upon correct usage of words. The forum language is English, and while it's fine to discuss definitions, assertively twisting words beyond their reasonable definition to troll, like saying "Saliva is an animal product, if you swallow your own saliva you're not vegan!" is not acceptable.
This is a warning.

Words clearly used incorrectly in this thread:
1. Zoophilia
Zoophilia: A sexual disorder involving an erotic attraction to animals or an abnormal desire to have sexual contact with animals. Zoophilia is one form of paraphilia (deviant sexual behavior).
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11824
2. Carnism
Carnism is the invisible belief system, or ideology, that conditions people to eat certain animals. Carnism is essentially the opposite of veganism, as “carn” means “flesh” or “of the flesh” and “ism” refers to a belief system.
http://www.carnism.org/carnism


Find different words to use.
Suggested:
"Animal Lover"
"Welfarist"
"Animal Dependent"
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Jebus »

Is Philosophical vegan Brimstonesalad's alter ego?
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by Cirion Spellbinder »

Jebus wrote:Is Philosophical vegan Brimstonesalad's alter ego?
No, it belongs to an underground society of reptilians with the ultimate goal of world domination.
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Re: Zoophilia, Misanthropy and Carnism

Post by vegan81vzla »

I just have to say, what would be the difference between "animal lover" an zoophile, among the general/less cultural population? I have used terms like "animalistic vegans" in other discussions in this forum, precisely to refrain using the term zoophilic vegans and avoid unnecessarily hurting people's sensibilities

But no matter how "asexual" that care/love for animals might be, people just don't understand the vegan message coming only from the animalistic perspective. When it comes to food, it is gluttony the issue that people have to overcome. We eat and began eating animals out of ignorance. We keep doing it out of gluttony and social conditioning.

Sure, the reason why this current society "takes care" of animals is for profit, but most rural farmers don't. So they "take care" of their animals in a very caring fashion just to end up using them the same.
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