Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

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Minos
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by Minos »

brimstoneSalad wrote: If you're going for bulking, the fiber in the beans may make it hard to eat enough of them, so an "isolated" source like a protein powder may be beneficial/easier since you can just drink it.
This is true. I've gained 6 kg (to a total of 74 kg, which is big achievement for me) over last half of the year, but on work-out days I can't get enough calories because of high fiber content in food I usually eat.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Minos wrote:
brimstoneSalad wrote: If you're going for bulking, the fiber in the beans may make it hard to eat enough of them, so an "isolated" source like a protein powder may be beneficial/easier since you can just drink it.
This is true. I've gained 6 kg (to a total of 74 kg, which is big achievement for me) over last half of the year, but on work-out days I can't get enough calories because of high fiber content in food I usually eat.
I would suggest you focus on foods like tofu (which is lower in fiber, but high in protein) and nuts (which have a lot of good fat) after your workout. If you're burning a lot of calories, you can carb-load before the workout if you think it helps you. Focus on grains rather than veggies or fruit.
inator
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by inator »

brimstoneSalad wrote:You can add some ground mustard when you eat (not the processed condiment) to your cruciferous veggies to add back in enzymes destroyed by cooking. Although Greger has jumped the shark a bit lately, he has a good video on that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsN8x0BWcyE
What makes you say that?
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

inator wrote:
brimstoneSalad wrote: Although Greger has jumped the shark a bit lately,
What makes you say that?
He cited a very bad study on the efficacy of chemo, the "2% gambit".

And this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuMt7wFarrw
Bad microbiome bull against artificial sweeteners (change doesn't mean bad, it smacks of fear mongering because he doesn't have a good argument). As well, he cherry picks there with regard to insulin resistance studies.
inator
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by inator »

brimstoneSalad wrote:He cited a very bad study on the efficacy of chemo, the "2% gambit".
Ah, I've missed that one. Still, you won't see him advising against chemo.
brimstoneSalad wrote:And this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuMt7wFarrw
Bad microbiome bull against artificial sweeteners (change doesn't mean bad, it smacks of fear mongering because he doesn't have a good argument). As well, he cherry picks there with regard to insulin resistance studies.
I think this is just another example of him making the perfect the enemy of the good. His focus is optimal nutrition, which has always been one of the main weaknesses of his work in my opinion. Nothing new though.
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

inator wrote: Ah, I've missed that one. Still, you won't see him advising against chemo.
No, but that one was pretty bad, and it plays into his biases in favor of food as medicine. If medicine medicine is less effective, then diet is even more important. I think that's encouraging him to undermine the efficacy of chemo. You can cite real studies on efficacy of cancer intervention, and it's still plenty scary. There's no need for pseudoscience or bad studies to make cancer look more scary than it is.
inator wrote: I think this is just another example of him making the perfect the enemy of the good. His focus is optimal nutrition, which has always been one of the main weaknesses of his work in my opinion. Nothing new though.
I thought that too, but unfortunately this goes beyond that. In his first video criticizing splenda, that was all it was (the migraine thing, which had some potential credibility). This was outright cherry picking when insulin sensitivity has already been proved by many other studies to not be an issue; the preponderance of the evidence was against him on this one, and he pushed ahead with it anyway.

I think there's reason to believe (since the last video, and lack of a correction that I've seen) he's not capable of being rational on this topic.
inator
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by inator »

brimstoneSalad wrote:No, but that one was pretty bad, and it plays into his biases in favor of food as medicine. If medicine medicine is less effective, then diet is even more important. I think that's encouraging him to undermine the efficacy of chemo. You can cite real studies on efficacy of cancer intervention, and it's still plenty scary. There's no need for pseudoscience or bad studies to make cancer look more scary than it is.
Yeah. I think his main focus is usually prevention. I don't think he's gone into the full-blown 'food as (only) medicine' mindset yet and hopefully he won't.
brimstoneSalad wrote:I thought that too, but unfortunately this goes beyond that. In his first video criticizing splenda, that was all it was (the migraine thing, which had some potential credibility). This was outright cherry picking when insulin sensitivity has already been proved by many other studies to not be an issue; the preponderance of the evidence was against him on this one, and he pushed ahead with it anyway.

I think there's reason to believe (since the last video, and lack of a correction that I've seen) he's not capable of being rational on this topic.
The microbiome thing is debatable and his advice is not that unreasonable. But yeah, he shouldn't have linked it to insulin issues when there was no call for it. There are some biases there. Do I think he's after views? I sure hope not. Though, I have to say, he speaks in less definitive terms about this sort of stuff in person than he does in his videos. Let's just see how he does in the future.
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

inator wrote: Yeah. I think his main focus is usually prevention. I don't think he's gone into the full-blown 'food as (only) medicine' mindset yet and hopefully he won't.
Yet with his reference to the "2% gambit" Greger effectively took sides with the quacks in declaring a very important medical treatment to be effectively useless.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/16/two-percent-gambit-chemotherapy/

That one line goes a long way to discrediting him, and all of his prior work since he's shown himself to not be trustworthy anymore. It's really a shame, since he's done some really good videos in the past.
We need credible plant-based doctors to recommend, and he's effectively removed his hat from the ring. He needs to issue a correction on that if he wants to be taken seriously. As well as on the insulin resistance issue.
inator wrote:The microbiome thing is debatable and his advice is not that unreasonable.
Everything affects the microbiome. Eating a banana instead of an apple or something will inevitably change your biome a bit. Any minute change in diet affects microbes.
It's only meaningful information if we know it affects it to negative health outcomes (or at least something with mechanistic evidence that might result in negative outcomes). It's like labeling a food GMO -- or as containing DNA, which people are equally worried about in surveys -- the mere mentioning of it generates fear because of the way it's done.
inator wrote:Let's just see how he does in the future.
I'd rather see him issue corrections. Otherwise, it's very difficult to trust him not to repeat these kinds of mistakes.
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by inator »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Yet with his reference to the "2% gambit" Greger effectively took sides with the quacks in declaring a very important medical treatment to be effectively useless.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/16/two-percent-gambit-chemotherapy/

That one line goes a long way to discrediting him, and all of his prior work since he's shown himself to not be trustworthy anymore. It's really a shame, since he's done some really good videos in the past.
We need credible plant-based doctors to recommend, and he's effectively removed his hat from the ring. He needs to issue a correction on that if he wants to be taken seriously. As well as on the insulin resistance issue.
I agree. I was familiar with the 2% study, I just wasn't aware that Greger had cited it before you mentioned it. That's quite shocking.
brimstoneSalad wrote: Everything affects the microbiome. Eating a banana instead of an apple or something will inevitably change your biome a bit. Any minute change in diet affects microbes.
It's only meaningful information if we know it affects it to negative health outcomes (or at least something with mechanistic evidence that might result in negative outcomes). It's like labeling a food GMO -- or as containing DNA, which people are equally worried about in surveys -- the mere mentioning of it generates fear because of the way it's done.
Yes, however there's bacteria generally considered to be beneficial and bacteria considered to be harmful. It's a simplified notion, of course, considering the complexity of the microbiome.
According to my limited research about sucralose, it tends to significantly reduce good bacteria, especially bifido- and lactobacillus strains, which have repeatedly been linked to the beneficial health effects of probiotic supplementation. And it's not part of the normal flora variation.

I agree it's way too soon to reach any negative conclusions. It's just something worth keeping in mind, even though we don't have data indicating specific health outcomes. If the changes observed in rodent studies were to be confirmed in human studies, I'd take this more seriously.
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Re: Veg-diet & workout - am I missing out on something?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

inator wrote: According to my limited research about sucralose, it tends to significantly reduce good bacteria, especially bifido- and lactobacillus strains, which have repeatedly been linked to the beneficial health effects of probiotic supplementation. And it's not part of the normal flora variation.
Even the benefit of those particular strains vs. others is on shaky ground.
In what amounts did sucralose do this, and why? Does it do so in vitro? And what replaced them? The most important part of many gut flora is what they prevent from colonizing.

Even if sucralose had confirmed negative effects, it has to be weighed against sugar and other caloric sweeteners. Of course, Greger would only compare it to berries, since he isn't pragmatic in that regard.
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