Just found out about palm oil.

[Allison-vega]

I am late to the party on this. I came upon a YouTube video about palm oil. I just found out how bad the destruction of forest and animals with regard to harvesting it. Now I am wondering what to do. I have been looking around my house for products that contain palm oil and most of them have it. I also found out it's in many of my staple products which I have used for a long time. Now I am confused as to how I am going to transition away. I thought I had this down but obviously this is another level for me. I want to replace many of these products, but I don't want to make everything myself or become so basic that I can't enjoy life. It's not like there is really any clear labeling and I am not sure I can remember the multitude of palm based ingredients. At the same time, I don't want to ignore this. I just want to keep it simple. Anyone here gotten away from these types of products? How did you do it?

[seitan_forker]

Here's a decent (albeit potentially outdated - the article is from 2012) list of companies that either don't use palm oil or are making strides in that direction: http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/guide-vegan-products-and-palm-oil/

I'd just hit the google machine and search for palm oil free versions of things you're trying to replace. Some of your favorite junk foods may be lost causes, but it seems like a small price to pay for peace of mind.

[brimstoneSalad]

What video did you see?

Unprocessed products, like veggies and beans, are your best bet. Buy frozen veggies (for convenience, price, and freshness) and cook a pound of beans every other day or so (start from dry, soak them, then boil).
Beyond that, go for oats (really quick and convenient to make oatmeal), whole wheat pasta, and whole wheat bread (which usually doesn't have palm in it either).

If something has palm oil in it, it's a pretty good indication that it's junk food anyway.
In terms of processed foods, look for things that have canola (or rapeseed) oil in them instead.

What kinds of processed staples are you trying to replace? We may be able to give suggestions if you have some specific ones that are important.

[Allison-vega]

Thanks seitan_forker. I checked that link out last night. It's got lots of good information.

Thanks brimstoneSalad. I have been on a mostly raw food diet mixed with occasional beans, potatoes and various other stuff for about 6 weeks now. I have to say I am not depriving myself of junk food, but ironically I am not craving it all that much either. So that said, I guess I am not really missing palm oil. However I do drink almond milk in my coffee which is made with some palm oil. I also have soaps and beauty products that probably use it. I checked into Dr Bronners Castile soap which I use regularly. They seem to have an ethical and sustainable arrangement with farms in Ghana so I guess that's reasonable. I haven't checked out my detergents, lotions, beauty products others just yet but I don't think it will be that hard to replace them.

I suppose yesterday I was more put-off by the idea that I haven't gone far enough or somehow my world became 10 times more complicated. But now that I have taken a step back, I can see that it's not really much of change that I need to take. Since I have altered my eating habits and don't have so much junk cravings that will take a big chunk out of my palm consumption. I am still a bit put off by my love Oreo's having palm but then again I haven't been eating them anyway. I guess it's really about the frustration of having to read even more labels. It's also the idea that by comparison to everyone else, I am probably extreme. I am also confused because their is evidence that palm oil is more efficient than other oils. In reality I am pretty laid back person. I like to keep it simple, without acting pretentious. I am not sure I want to socially isolate myself even more. Uh well. Such as life.

[brimstoneSalad]

I have been on a mostly raw food diet mixed with occasional beans, potatoes and various other stuff for about 6 weeks now.

Please make sure you eat several servings of beans every day. Aside from being one of the most environmentally sustainable foods on Earth (way better than veggies, which are waay better than fruit which is more destructive), they're also essential for lysine and overall protein and mineral needs.

However I do drink almond milk in my coffee which is made with some palm oil.

Creamer is often made from palm oil, but plant milks aren't. They may contain vitamin A palmitate, which may or may not be made from palm oil, but that's only a trace ingredient and not something to worry about. The main concern should be the 99.9%, not the 0.1%

PETA gives good advice on this: http://www.peta.org/living/food/making- ... ucts-food/
And that applies to things like palm oil too. What matters is the bulk of our use, and being sensible and sustainable in terms of personal sanity and as an example for others that looks like it's easy to follow.

I checked into Dr Bronners Castile soap which I use regularly. They seem to have an ethical and sustainable arrangement with farms in Ghana so I guess that's reasonable.

Sustainable palm oil is like "happy meat"; it's a myth.
You can see this thread for more: https://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewt ... f=17&t=818

Try try to minimize as much as you can. If your soap has palm in it, try to use less of it maybe, and make it last longer. That's hard to replace.
There are soaps made from coconut, which may be a bit better, and then soaps made from olive and other oils which could also be good instead (although they will frequently have palm in them too, it's important to check the ingredients).

I am still a bit put off by my love Oreo's having palm but then again I haven't been eating them anyway.

There are Oreo alternatives made with canola instead of palm. Much healthier too.
It's important to help the market understand that consumers want better oils in their foods.

I am also confused because their is evidence that palm oil is more efficient than other oils.

Palm is more efficient, but it's grown in the middle of the rain forest, and palm plantations burn down forest to create (releasing huge amounts of CO2, both from the trees and the extensive peat soil under them).
Palm is only a couple times more efficient than something like canola oil.

Here's a convenient comparison chart: http://www.gardeningplaces.com/articles ... pared1.htm
You have to multiply the "kg/ha" parts by two or three, as mentioned below the table.

But when we're looking at oils, we can't just compare the total quantity. We might as well eat crude oil from the ground if we don't care about the nature of oil we eat. There are huge differences between the health value of these oils.

The final column, breaking down EFAs, is very meaningful in this analysis. In terms of EFAs (actual meaningful nutrition), palm has a terrible yield.
So when we talk about health value per acre, palm is bad, and in the process it's destroying our rainforests and contributing massively to global warming.

The same, of course, can be said for much fruit (like bananas), which provide little nutrition, and mostly sugar and water, and is also disproportionately destructive to the environment.

[Allison-vega]

Thanks brimstoneSalad,

Thanks for the links. That's some very good information especially about the oils. It makes a lot more sense now. It's like people will destroy entire lands just because you can get more oil out of palm per acre. After seeing there are so many other sources of oil, we don't have to rely on it. I have heard hemp and linseed are a common weed in the US. We should take advantage of that. This is why I believe in permaculture.

What?! Not banana too.

[brimstoneSalad]

What?! Not banana too.

We have to consider an intersection of health and environment.

Like this:

Beans are super healthy and less harmful to the environment: We should choose to eat the most beans.
Grains are moderately healthy and less harmful to the environment: We should choose to eat some grains (particularly whole grains like oats).
Rice and potatoes are not very healthy, and are bad for the environment: We should limit these.

Veggies are very healthy (the healthiest), but kind of bad for the environment: We should eat a little veggies (for our health), but limit them to the amount we need to be healthy (about a pound a day is good, unless you grow it in your back yard, then eat as many as you want ).
Berries are very healthy, but kind of bad for the environment: We should eat some berries (for health), but not too many (we shouldn't use them as a major calorie source, just for antioxidants) -- unless you're getting them from your back yard or foraging them, then eat all you want.
Super sweet low antioxidant fruits (bananas, and the like) are not very healthy, and are bad for the environment: We should limit this to a treat, or avoid them if we can (we don't need to obsessively avoid them, but just try not to make them a major calorie source)

When we look at health and environmental impact, things become a lot more complex than just Meat vs. Vegetables.

Take Oysters: Technically an animal, but rope grown oysters are actually really good for the environment (unlike other meat)
Oysters also probably aren't sentient, so the more rope grown oysters people eat, possibly the better the state of the world. They probably aren't very healthy, though (healthier than other meat, but less healthy than veggies and beans) so I personally won't eat them.

The more evidence based we make our choices, and the less dogmatic, the more sensible veganism can be seen as by others.

[Allison-vega]

On average I eat about 20 bananas a week which is probably still a lot. The majority of fruit I eat are apples, and occasionally berries. However the main staple of my diet is oats and flax seeds, for breakfast and of course legumes for other meals. In California kale, chard, beets, various greens and spinach grow like a weed in peoples gardens so we don't miss out. Of course I still eat a bunch of other things once and while that are less perfect. As for oysters, I'll pass. I wouldn't say I eat perfectly sustainable, but I'm healthy. Since getting more involved in the vegan community I have learned a lot.

[brimstoneSalad]

I would recommend sticking to berries, if you can. Frozen berries are pretty affordable, and still far healthier than junk-fruit, which I call bananas and apples (they have been cultivated to increase sugar content, and have become essentially candy).

The only benefit to Bananas is potassium, but veggies are rich in potassium too -- so if you eat enough veggies, you're good.
If you don't eat enough veggies, I'd recommend you use light salt, which is a mix of sodium and potassium chloride -- it will cut your sodium and boost your potassium consumption in one.