I was recently asked to help an acquaintance to quit smoking. I was about halfway through my monologue when I thought "Hold on here, am I trying to increase the times that this person adds to the suffering of sentient beings?"
A meat eater or vegetarian dying is only second to one being converted to veganism. Hence, shouldn't we encourage any activity that will cut his/her lifespan? It actually goes farther than that. One could also argue that one should discourage them from exercising, encourage them to try drugs, discourage them from having regular medical check-ups etc. etc.
This is written with the assumption/opinion that there are no vegan smokers.
Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
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Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
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- brimstoneSalad
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Great question.
Since smoking usually also kills people after they pass middle age and near retirement (and are no longer very productive to society), it becomes quite the dilemma. This is why governments aren't as against it as one might expect them to be otherwise -- saves them money on payouts, and doesn't negatively affect the economy much.
It's also suicide -- something they are choosing, with full knowledge it will kill them.
I'm very against smoking in public where it harms others, but if somebody of marginal social use wants to kill his or herself early by smoking in private, perhaps we shouldn't make it a priority to discourage them.
The kind of people who smoke are not necessarily going to be the best people anyway.
However, if the smoker is somebody valuable to society (and will continue to be after middle age), it might still make sense to encourage the person to quit on that basis. Scientists, etc.
Since smoking usually also kills people after they pass middle age and near retirement (and are no longer very productive to society), it becomes quite the dilemma. This is why governments aren't as against it as one might expect them to be otherwise -- saves them money on payouts, and doesn't negatively affect the economy much.
It's also suicide -- something they are choosing, with full knowledge it will kill them.
I'm very against smoking in public where it harms others, but if somebody of marginal social use wants to kill his or herself early by smoking in private, perhaps we shouldn't make it a priority to discourage them.
The kind of people who smoke are not necessarily going to be the best people anyway.
However, if the smoker is somebody valuable to society (and will continue to be after middle age), it might still make sense to encourage the person to quit on that basis. Scientists, etc.
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Second hand smoke issues aside, most brands likely contain castoreum, which is a chemical created from a beaver's anal gland.
Even if you roll your own cigarettes, beginning with the harvest of the tobacco there is direct killing of animals. Rabbits, mice etc. get caught in the combines used for harvest and pesticides are used to kill threats to the crops.
Next we have the animal testing that cigarette manufacturers still perform.
And then there's the fact that if people stopped getting so much cancer from smoking, the resources needed to treat them could be put to better use by the health care system.
It's a choice that contributes to the suffering of animals and humans. It's difficult to estimate whether the slightly shorter lifespan of a smoking meat eater will save more lives than a meat eater who lives longer but doesn't support the tobacco industry.
Even if you roll your own cigarettes, beginning with the harvest of the tobacco there is direct killing of animals. Rabbits, mice etc. get caught in the combines used for harvest and pesticides are used to kill threats to the crops.
Next we have the animal testing that cigarette manufacturers still perform.
And then there's the fact that if people stopped getting so much cancer from smoking, the resources needed to treat them could be put to better use by the health care system.
It's a choice that contributes to the suffering of animals and humans. It's difficult to estimate whether the slightly shorter lifespan of a smoking meat eater will save more lives than a meat eater who lives longer but doesn't support the tobacco industry.
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Really? And how much?inator wrote:Second hand smoke issues aside, most brands likely contain castoreum, which is a chemical created from a beaver's anal gland.
There are a lot of cigarettes smoked, they may only contain a small trace.
That's comparable to any unnecessary hobby that uses plant products. Ever paint a picture on a canvas?inator wrote:Even if you roll your own cigarettes, beginning with the harvest of the tobacco there is direct killing of animals. Rabbits, mice etc. get caught in the combines used for harvest and pesticides are used to kill threats to the crops.
Is it lot testing, and ongoing? That could be a good argument. Is is mandated by law?inator wrote:Next we have the animal testing that cigarette manufacturers still perform.
That may be a myth. Because people die quickly from lung cancer, the burden on healthcare may be less than the chronic disease they'd experience (with low social productivity) in old age.inator wrote:And then there's the fact that if people stopped getting so much cancer from smoking, the resources needed to treat them could be put to better use by the health care system.
Aside from the harm of second hand smoke on others, I would be willing to bet it would (and give good odds on that).inator wrote:It's difficult to estimate whether the slightly shorter lifespan of a smoking meat eater will save more lives than a meat eater who lives longer but doesn't support the tobacco industry.
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Definitely not much, it's just an additive.brimstoneSalad wrote:Really? And how much?
There are a lot of cigarettes smoked, they may only contain a small trace.
That doesn't mean those deaths are irrelevant. I'm taking all the negatives of tobacco into account when wheighing them against potential benefits.brimstoneSalad wrote:That's comparable to any unnecessary hobby that uses plant products. Ever paint a picture on a canvas?
Painting on canvases deserves its own cost-benefit analysis.
It's ongoing but I can't tell you to what extent. Some tobacco companies still fund research involving animal testing - for example Altria/Philip Morris (Marlboro, L&m, etc.) and R.J.Reynolds (Camel).brimstoneSalad wrote:Is it lot testing, and ongoing? That could be a good argument. Is is mandated by law?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/2 ... 50091.html
It's not required by regulations. It's even been banned entirely in a few European countries.
Also think of the effects of smoking on other cancers, cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease etc.brimstoneSalad wrote:That may be a myth. Because people die quickly from lung cancer, the burden on healthcare may be less than the chronic disease they'd experience (with low social productivity) in old age.
I would think so too.brimstoneSalad wrote:Aside from the harm of second hand smoke on others, I would be willing to bet it would (and give good odds on that).
But you can probably use the time (hypothetically) spent encouraging meat eaters to kill themselves more effectively...
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
It may be more of a "don't waste time discouraging meat eaters from smoking", rather than actually launching some kind of campaign to encourage it.inator wrote: But you can probably use the time (hypothetically) spent encouraging meat eaters to kill themselves more effectively...
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
I think suicide would be more to do with their intentions. For instance, if they were smoking cigarettes with the intent to deliberately kill themselves, that'd be suicide. However, if they're smoking cigarettes simply for the pleasure, but ended up dying from it -- that'd just be plain ol' death.It's also suicide -- something they are choosing, with full knowledge it will kill them.
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Intentional "Suicide" in terms of a single deliberate act, yes. In terms of self inflicted death, even if not for the purposes of death but for pleasure, maybe not (as long as the person knew it would lead to death).ThinkAboutThis wrote: I think suicide would be more to do with their intentions.
We could even say chronic overeating, or eating large amounts of meat is "suicidal", since people know it's self destructive and disregard that harm. We talk about reckless people being "suicidal".
Also, kind of how every action movie talks about "suicide missions"; the point is not really to kill themselves, but it's like likely outcome and is accepted as such in order to achieve another goal. Likewise, suicide bombings aren't simply meant to kill oneself, but cause maximum carnage.
What's probably morally relevant is that these people freely chose to smoke, knowing it would probably kill them. A lot of people go by the "live fast and die young" mantra, claiming they don't want to get old anyway.
As long as there is some level of informed consent, I think it's pretty fair to ignore the harm as mostly self inflicted if it's not harming others.
If somebody legitimately didn't know smoking would kill him or her, then I suppose it might be fair to make a note of it.
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
Let's say you do convince this person to quit smoking. Quitting any addiction requires changing your entire life-style. The physical dependence is bad enough, but breaking out of the mind-set that allows your addiction to become so rooted in your person is harder. If successful, it could put this person in a new frame of mind, mainly "I can change, and change can be good!"
Now this person feels better and open to changing his lifestyle. It's not scary anymore! Maybe he would consider changing other aspects of his life that are harmful to him, and harmful to other beings......
Now this person feels better and open to changing his lifestyle. It's not scary anymore! Maybe he would consider changing other aspects of his life that are harmful to him, and harmful to other beings......
Alcohol may have been a factor.
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- brimstoneSalad
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Re: Should one encourage or discourage people to quit smoking?
That's an excellent point. I wonder if people who quite smoking successfully are more likely to make other positive life changes on that momentum.PsYcHo wrote:If successful, it could put this person in a new frame of mind, mainly "I can change, and change can be good!"
Now this person feels better and open to changing his lifestyle. It's not scary anymore! Maybe he would consider changing other aspects of his life that are harmful to him, and harmful to other beings......